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Ireland v Romania, RWC Pool B. Stade De Bordeaux, 14:30 Saturday 9th September 2023. Virgin TV / ITV

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Good entertainment and fair play to the lads in that heat.....

    Learnings:

    Paulie needs to get the biscuits and tea out and get stuck into the lineouts. Worry.

    J10 is the Daddy. Outstanding. Passing perfection.

    BIG Joe must be pushing for a start, incredible unit and involved in everything.

    Loughman is break glass and goodness help us if needed. Just not at this level.

    Aki is in great form and pushing Robbie.

    Mack is electric.

    JGP needs to stay fit and is so good....

    Tadhg Beirne was tired before this game and is now shattered , please give him a breather :) The look on his face scoring that last try... :)

    We need Dan Sheehan fit and firing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭almostover


    I would disagree on the Aki point. He cemented his status as our 1st choice no.12 today. Must be picked now when fit.





  • Agreed, he has been in superb form for quite a while now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Not so sure on that but great place to be in having Aki and Robbie vying for that spot. Position of real strength for us @ 12.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭flatface


    I’m sure they will both feature. Great to have them both but Aki the man in possession at the moment. Will be interesting to see who is picked for Tonga.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭almostover


    Henshaw needs to find fitness before there's any competition at 12. Right now, a fit Aki is critical to our WC campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Romania were surely more restricted when part of the eastern bloc ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Would have zero issue with Robbie or Aki starting at 12. Robbie is a world class 12 period. Aki not essential if Henshaw available but it is fantastic to have both champing at the bit for 12.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭almostover


    It's been a while since Henshaw has shown that he's a world class 12. All down to fitness, granted. Aki has played well in an Irish shirt anytime he's been asked to in 2023.

    I've nothing against Henshaw, but there's no point harking back to prior performances by him. He's had injury issues and Aki has taken his chance. No room for both in a matchday 23 against top opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Personally would still have Henshaw starting at 12 in a wcup qtr etc if fully match fit but it really isn't an issue either way in my eyes and a damn good place to be in @ 12.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,035 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Would you have him starting 12 if he hadn't started any of the other games before that?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’d agree with most of your post but on this:

    No room for both in a matchday 23 against top opposition.

    There definitely is. Farrell is a fan of a centre in the 23 jersey. If Aki starts at 12, I think it’s very possible Henshaw gets the 23 jersey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    No, note my reference to being match fit.......Henshaw needs game time absolutely and I hope we see him at 12 next week. Bundee has little to prove and we know where he is at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭davepatr07


    I don't rate Loughman and Henderson, think they are liabilities. Henderson has dropped form and Loughman not at the races at this level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭Shank Williams


    Why are people trying to decipher anything from this embarrassing mismatch? Like watching a one armed man fight Tyson



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    I think you are being generous 😉 I am having recurring bad dreams about Loughman being needed in a proper match....Time to light a few hundred candles and have a good mass.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Loughman has a great deal of credit in the bank with Munster fans from his performances in the latter stages of last year's URC.

    There's no sugar-coating today though. That was bad. But at the same time, I'm certainly happy to call it an anomaly. Scrummaging was a mixed bag, but it was around the park where he had most of his hiccups. And that's odd, given how strong he is in the loose.

    Heat, soap-ball, nerves, too keen to impress, who knows. But today didn't reflect him as a player.

    Do I want Porter fit for 80 minutes against South Africa? Yes.

    But I'd also be chill on Loughman. He'll reintroduce himself.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,779 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Any decent highlights of the game around?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭gavkm27


    Yeah he was there at the back with O’Mahony looked fine.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Who kicked the ball for the Romanian try? The follow up was poor. Earls went on the outside and was blocked by their winger but the kicker never filled the gap, would be a lesson learned there to chase up kicks with more purpose I think.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,290 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I think it was Sexton, clearly didn’t fan wide enough and we had no fullback at that moment so lesson has to be learned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭TRC10


    That's the sort of scoreline the no.1 side in the world should be putting up against the 19th ranked side who didn't even qualify for the world cup. Good confidence boosting and hopefully momentum building win. Much tougher tests to come obviously.

    I was nervous beforehand that it might be a Namibia '07 sort of game for us. But thankfully it wasn't and we dispatched them with ease. 65 minutes into Sexton's legs and him looking very sharp was a big plus too.

    Lineout issues still haven't been rectified though which is a big worry for me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭kuang1


    Thank fook for that.

    Imagine if you had nothing to worry about?!

    Hell on earth I'd say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It was sexton then his chase was not effective and he didn’t cover where earls had been so he ended up in no man’s land, neither effectively chasing nor defending. It’s not on Keet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    Bundee has looked like he is back to his 2016 brilliant best. Fit, Fast and full of confidence. Just give him the ball.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Re the Romanian try, Sexton kicked to their back three in a situation where it immediately created an overlap, 1v1 for them. I suspect it's a kick he doesn't make against stronger opposition, but the timing of the score was ideal as it forced him to reign things in a bit rather than try and create everything himself, and we proceeded to put in some lovely team scores as a result.

    Earls went from chasing a loose ball to having to make a cover tackle. He probably should have been a bit more aware of his exposure but it was Sexton that put us into that situation.

    He's the best version of himself right now that I've ever seen. He still has all his pace but looks to have added more bulk in the last six months. His handling in the warm ups was exceptional - his range of passes left and right have changed the nature of the type of threat that he is. Despite a weird year for Connacht, he looks to be peaking at exactly the right time for Ireland. If Ireland go deep into the tournament I can bet his performances will be one of the talking points.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,290 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Sexton ran the support line off Earls as it was a grubber and not a contestable garryowen. It absolutely was not his responsibility to cover Earls space, and it takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics to put the blame on that try into Sexton.

    If you watch Keenan in that passage of play he literally gets stuck between the decision to run back and cover the space, or move forward to join the attack



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack



    That's your take which is unsurprising. I see it as a systems failure. The move ended with a pass out to the edge and a probing kick behind the winger for our winger to chase which he did. Our backfield cover and the kicker should have been able to close off the space behind Earls but they didn't. Trying to pin all the blame on one individual is conspicuous to say the least. I'd like to think the coaches will be reviewing that and giving feedback about how the system failed so we don't get caught out like that again.

    I wouldn't change anything about what Earls did, but I would definitely change how the space behind him was covered.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd like to see it again, but I think one mistake in the build up to it was the option to go blindside at all - we were short numbers to the point that the grubber was probably the only option.

    (With the angle of the kick and the bounce of the ball, Earls was caught between attacking the ball and covering the space behind. One of those situations where the winger is left in no-man's land. He didn't cover himself in glory either tho).

     I'd like to think the coaches will be reviewing that and giving feedback about how the system failed so we don't get caught out like that again.

    Personally I think it's not the type of kick we typically see from that area of the field so it may be the case that we just don't see it again this RWC.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,290 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    That's your take which is unsurprising

    whats that supposed to mean? if you are trying to bring provincal sh!te into this you can keep it.


    Trying to pin all the blame on one individual is conspicuous to say the least.

    what was that you said??

    Who kicked the ball for the Romanian try? The follow up was poor. Earls went on the outside and was blocked by their winger but the kicker never filled the gap, would be a lesson learned there to chase up kicks with more purpose I think.

    you literally tried to blame it off on the kicker. you could at least be consistent, instead of now trying to blame a "systems error" for how to defend an attacking grubber kick.


    sextons line was perfect, he ran the inside support line. the responsibility to cover the back field absolutely was not his. i had a look at it again, and it is actually keenan who spots the danger straight away, and is making his way across even before the romanian has his hands on the ball. it was been ringrose in the centre of the pitch who is planted in indecision, but you cant really blame him either as hes just gotten up from carrying the ball into the previous ruck. it was simply unlucky that the two players running back to try to cover the inside pass from the Romanians were porter and o mahony, and neither had the gas to keep up.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,290 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Personally I think it's not the type of kick we typically see from that area of the field so it may be the case that we just don't see it again this RWC.

    we tried that type of kick about 3 times in game, all down earls side. AFAIR it worked out in the other two situations.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Against Romania, yes. I'm not sure we see it all that often against bigger teams?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    It was a low percentage, unnecessary play. More often than not that ball ends up going into touch or a player collects and is tackled into touch.

    I don't think the execution was poor but Romania dealt with it well. Decision was questionable at best. Earls was stuck on the outside and their defender did a good job of shepherding him to a place where he wasn't able to get close to the ball. Might have done better than throwing a leg out but I wouldn't blame him too much if at all.

    Really was immaterial ultimately. Earls didn't have a great day but it's more because he just doesn't have the legs nor does he fit the Irish style relative to the other back three players. The number of touches that Hansen, Keenan and Lowe had was outrageous (86 between them). Earls just isn't that type of player. I don't think he's out there necessarily for his on pitch contributions anyway though and that's fine by me. If he is important behind the scenes, then he's making a solid contribution to any potential success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    The decision to kick was mad anyway!

    Looks like we will see loads of kicks at this WC to get behind the defense. That one was never on.





  • Would you mind sharing where you are seeing those player stats (number of touches)? RWC site nor Irish rugby site seems to go to that level of detail.


    The RWC site is actually presented quite poorly in that you can't just sort by number, only by the stat value itself, and both teams are mixed up together. So if you're looking for a specific player you will potentially have to scan the entire list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Irish Rugby put up a performance tab in their results report which breaks down most things which presumably OP is referring to


    https://www.irishrugby.ie/overview/?FixGuid=23IS9164



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    30 seconds – Romania 10m. 5 man called. Good read by Romania. 2 dummys not bought. Ultimately a simple lift at 4 to steal. Poor call by Ireland

    10:38 – Ireland 10m. 5 man called again. Good throw to tail. Dummy pod at 4 fools Romania allowing uncontested at tail. Potentially learned from the first call.

    16:06 – Half way. 6 +1 called. Minor movement but a solid throw to 4/5 arcing over Romanian jumper that was well beaten into the air anyway. Good throw and good execution. Ryan catches at full tilt

    19:06 – Ireland 22m. 5+1 called. Out jumped Romania with a throw to tail with POM the receiver coming in as lifter. Crooked throw by Herring. Hard to tell from angle but looked a tad harsh. Herring standing ~2m outside 22m line and Ryan catches it ~1m outside the 22m line and for me it clearly goes down the channel. Again, tough angle to fully gauge it.

    43:24 – Romania 5m line. 6+1 called POM receiver. Simple throw to 5/6 channel. No contest. Caught, mauled.

    57:04 – Ireland 10m line. Broadcast missed it but looked to be a 6+1. Kelleher throwing. Henderson takes seemingly uncontested. Strong maul gaining 10m before VDF breakaway.

    60:45 – Romania 22m. 5+1 called. Throw to the 4/5 channel well read by Romania. Great throw and great jump negate the risk. Dummy maul set up for Kelleher on the peel for god inroads to the line.

    73:19 – Romania 7m line. 6+1. Throw to Henderson. No Dummy jumps or movement. Romania get a hand on it to steal but they literally **** their jumper straight across to the point where he lands 2m behind the maul on the Irish side. Chalked down as a lost lineout but realistically on a more even game that is called every time. Ref giving them a sporting chance at this point.

    74:04 – Romania 22m line. 7 full man lineout. Same call as previous straight to Henderson. Good throw good jump straight down to Murray Ireland score off first phase

    77:58 – Romania 7m line. 6+1 called. Throw to 6 for Beirne. No contest from Romania. Overthrow by Kelleher. Poor overthrow it must be said.

    79:10 – Half way. 6+1 called again. Henderson straight up at 4. Beats the Romanians into the air with an excellent jump and lift and the throw is much better.

    So overall we have 11 Irish lineouts. 4 lost. 1 by blatant illegality. One by a mildly harsh crooked throw. One out jumped on a poor call. And one poor throw.

    By no means a perfect showing. And definitely some stuff to work on. But it was extremely noticeable to me we had very little inventiveness regarding dummy jumpers and lifters. And not a huge amount of movement either. These were out cookie cutter lineout moves. I have no doubt we have more up our sleeve.

    I do not believe our line out is a problem



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    So overall we have 11 Irish lineouts. 4 lost. 1 by blatant illegality. One by a mildly harsh crooked throw. One out jumped on a poor call. And one poor throw.

    I do not believe our line out is a problem

    I think the worry is if we're having these struggles against Romania, we won't have things as easy against other more difficult opposition, even if we do have more up our sleeve...

    For me, it's our biggest area of concern, tbh.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I do not believe our line out is a problem

    4 out of 11 lineouts lost is absolutely a problem, no matter the breakdown. Especially on the back of consistent poor lineout performances.

    The question is whether its a fixable problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    If it's our biggest problem I'm glad its the biggest problem we have. Because it's rather overstated.

    We stopped any real movement or legitimate dummy pods in the first half.

    No point over showing the copybook when you're already 40 points to the good. Keeping it simple does open you up to the possibility of getting your jumps read though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    I agree. Not worried about it when Ryan, POM and Beirne are in there.

    Herring looks in good form. It was great to see Kelleher again. Hopefully Sheehan makes the bench v Tonga.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is, however, a point in practicing your lineout in real match scenarios because it has not been working for 4 games now. You can't just flip a switch on the training ground and correct that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I reckon the injuries affecting Kelleher and Sheehan could be problematic. Sheehan needs to get minutes under his belt.

    For me, Loughman needs another run out. He was poor and it was uncharacteristic imo. He's usually pretty good around the park. I'd prefer him to Kilcoyne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    That's as poor as I've seen Loughman play to be honest, I'm not sure I'd be writing him off just yet at this level



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,385 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Watched the game again and Aki must be wondering what levels he is going to have hit to get a WC Man of The Match award.

    He put in some shift.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭ersatz


    You think players care about POTM awards? I would have thought they are a bit of a joke from a player pov.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,385 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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