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2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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Comments

  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Has there been a match so far that didn't have 'the worst referee in history' and people calling for their career to end?

    Carley, Gardner, Raynal and Peyper have so far been put in that box. I suppose the worst officials in Christendom get away with it when a team wins by 70 points but no doubt that will be rectified next time out when it's a close game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Scythica


    Just finished weekend in Marseille, great city tbf not sure why it gets so much hate. Had a good mix of beers and sightseeing. SA Scotland was a far better game and atmosphere than Eng Arg, but if it stays this hot then **** hell we'll be dying out there. Get into the sun and you need to sink one to hydrate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,013 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    WR seem to have thought that not showing replays would remove, or at least reduce, controversy. I think it has been a disaster, I understand the desire to speed the game up and not forensically reviewing incidents for prolonged periods but the nature of the game means that reviews are needed to reach the right decision given the often fine line between penalty/no penalty, yellow/red card, try/no try, etc.

    With TMOs already able to review incidents while play continues before bringing it to the refs attention if necessary, and the introduction of "the bunker", this apparent change in approach was not needed. Assuming new directives were issued, it was stupid to do it immediately before the WC without time for people to adjust has done a lot of damage imo. People who know their rugby pick up on things anyway so the lack of replays leaves questions while those less familiar with the game will struggle to develop their understanding. Not sure who this benefits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,770 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Agreed, at the moment a similar incident is judged not on what happened but whether it was picked up by the referee/TV ref. That is not a way to referee a match with assistance of replays. Once you go to replays the goal is to get the correct decisions, if you want it to be down to referees only then get rid of the TV ref.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,238 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Fiona Hayes knows a lot more and the intricacies of rugby than you and a lot of us around here every will.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A very frustrating watch of otherwise entertaining rugby last night, having caught up on the parts I missed cos of Real Life™ ... the referee being the standout for all the reasons everyone here has gone into; but for me it was the fact Fiji's lesser amount of cohesion caused by the (significantly IIRC?) lesser number of games they get to play. It really killed chances that I felt were gilt-edged opportunities. If this team had the same games under their belt as Wales did, imagine the result then. I felt like this was a game Fiji lost, than Wales won - even with the referee constantly on the former's back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,173 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Final penalty count 17-9 in Fijis favour. cards were one a piece with Fiji receiving the first one.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,794 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the fact Fiji's lesser amount of cohesion caused by the (significantly IIRC?) lesser number of games they get to play.

    nah


    most of these fiji players play in the same club team, the fijian Drua, who play in the super rugby league.

    cohesion is no longer an issue with them

    the single biggest reason they lost yesterday is the injury to their out half Caleb Muntz



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    World Cup games that spring to mind. Paddy obrien Fiji. Barnes nz. Pollock sa. Joubert France. Carley Fiji.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On the bulletins on the radio at 7:30 there was mention of harsh refereeing against the Fijians in last nights game on a channel that wouldn't really cover sports in any detail.

    I don't think there was bias and I don't for a second think there was corruption, but certainly the optics of the refereeing performance are not good at all and I can understand why there is a lot of grievance about it. I can understand the Fijian yellow and why that differed from some of the other infringements, but I definitely think Wales were given too many second and third chances when they were under pressure.

    World rugby need to get strict about down time during the games also. It appears to me after the weekend that teams are gaming injuries to add in additional water breaks and breathers when under pressure. I know we all comment about this in games and whether it's more a meme or has truth to it - what is going on this World Cup is excessive to a very obvious degree.

    Muntz was a huge loss. Decision making, play making and whilst young he's an on-field leader - all attributes that would have made a difference and him being such a late withdrawal hurt Fiji and robbed them of their cohesion early on. Credit to them for almost getting back into it - and for me the better team in almost all facets of play bar the breakdown and lineout. Wales really frustrated them at the breakdown and made it hard for Fiji to win those 5m pick and go battles for a score. Wales that little bit more street smart which was the major factor in the cards also - there was a subtlety to Wales infringements whereas Fiji was a straight yellow all day.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,237 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    They needed the points, I dont think you can call taking time on a conversion a waste?!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    As a SA supporter, I wouldnt mind if the quarter finals were decided on the current pool standings...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭kuang1




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Well it would be Italy vs SA and Ireland vs France, then hopefully SA and Ireland meet again in the final. Its nice to dream sometimes.

    Whats the pick of the games for this upcoming week?

    Really only Australia vs Fiji and England vs Japan where the result isnt more or less decided.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Argentina were the real flops of round 1. Surely they'll improve.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I think you nailed it here. As some of you here may have noticed, I'm loathe to criticise refs and happily call out some of the over the top whinging about refs that gets posted here. However that was not a good performance from Carley.

    It wasn't corrupt (ffs) and it wasn't intentional but I agree it appeared to be a display of unconscious bias. I feel a lot of 6 Nations refs have that bias against the PI teams. If Wales had been playing another 6 Nations side or NZ, SA or Australia then I think they would have seen a YC a lot earlier. Maybe some of the responsibility is on the Fiji captain. He needed to be in the refs ear more. You can guarantee that the likes of Sexton or Kolisi or going back a few years, BOD, Hooper, McCaw would have been bringing up the warnings, the cynical fouls etc.

    One decision I really don't understand was the knock on over the try line by the prop just before halftime. On the replays it looked like a clear no arms tackle by the Welsh hooker (I think). He just dived head first at the Fijan's feet. Not saying penalty try but surely a penalty and YC. What am I missing?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well they missed it so it didn't work out too well. It was a tough conversion and they needed to get back up and score a try whether they slotted it or not. For that you need time - they were blessed Liam Williams screwed up his kick because they left themselves with almost no chance to get back up the pitch given how little time they left themselves. The far better option would have been to drop kick the conversion



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Penalty and a YC would have pretty much necessitated a PT I think. You could have flagged two tackles on the player for being illegal. Utterly baffling decision. TMO brought it to his attention and he just wasn't interested.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think there was bias and I don't for a second think there was corruption

    Nah, I'm sorry but there absolutely 100% was bias there. I would lean strongly towards it merely being unconscious and generally just the function of weak reffing but there was bias in that referring.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes bias is bias be it conscious or unconscious. The later doesn't lessen the wrong.

    Yes in the heat of it all I did post this ref must be corrupt he's so bad. On reflection I take that back.

    But I stand by my statement that I never saw worse officiating in any sports code.

    Edit: I wouldn't be a ref moaner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I don't know if a penalty and YC would necessitate a penalty try as there were other defenders around. I didn't notice the second illegal tackle as I was too focused on the first. Every replay they showed I kept thinking it was blatant and cynical.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not being able to break down a 14 man England (with a poor defensive record over their last 10 games) suggests something fairly amiss. Neither Japan nor Samoa should pose threats but if Argentina play like they did yesterday both would fancy a crack at them. Argentina really were very poor, they weren't quite contenders before but after round one they look like they'll have enough to make the quarters but that's about it. Wales and Australia would both beat them.

    For me NZ were the biggest flops, they're a better team than that and should be contenders. They look bent out of shape and indecisive, not to the extent England do - but an uncharacteristic lack of fluency has crept into their game the last while now. Definitely the team I'd rather face in the quarter final and I wasn't convinced of that at all before the match.

    Scotland another disappointment. Were on top of South Africa for stretches of that game and playing good attacking rugby, but they had no composure inside the South African 22 and ultimately couldn't maintain possession through enough phases to break them down. There was a lot of debate around Russell before the game with some saying he was World no.1, others saying he is gifted but inconsistent and some that don't rate him at all. I'm in the gifted but inconsistent camp and yesterdays game is the match I'll point to in future when I want to emphasise that point. Had some lovely touches but wasted plenty of territory and opportunities overplaying. Scotland came out second best in terms of possession and territory stats and whilst South Africa had the upper hand at the breakdown - Scotland showed they could build fast ball and phases, they just couldn't do it consistently. Russell is incredibly impatient in possession and wants gaps to appear quickly, if they don't he forces it more and more until Scotland scupper possession with a poor pass, or a gifts an easy defensive read resulting in lost gain line or worse a hit behind the gain line. It's the same every time Scotland plays with Russell at 10 against any team that is happy to defend beyond 5 or 6 phases of opposition possession and can stay organised.

    I don't understand how people can't see this with Scotland and Russell but it's fundamental in my mind as to why there is quite a level of disagreement around Scotland as a threat and Russell as an individual player. Russell doesn't play 10 for the Scotland team he has, he plays 10 for the team he wants to have and has never come close to fully adapting to Scotland's strengths and weaknesses. And consequently - it's what makes Sexton an Ireland great, he has fully integrated himself at the core of Ireland's playing style. Even the likes of Ross Byrne benefits from being the most similar to Sexton in terms of playstyle - without necessarily being the 2nd / 3rd best out half in the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭kuang1


    Yes and even the commentary team highlighted how the defender's right shoulder was pointing downwards which makes it impossible to bring that arm into a legit wrap from that position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,710 ✭✭✭✭thebaz




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,702 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Its a pity we have to wait until Thursday now for the next game...

    I'd even settle for some midweek minnows!

    I know we've only had 3 game days so far, but the cold turkey is already setting in!!


    My brother and his young lad were over for the Australia v Georgia game (these were the 'unwanted' tickets in our 3 game Stade de France pack, so he picked up cheap flights over for it), and he said the entrance to the Stade was a bit of a sh1tshow...., and just in general there were not many stewards, or helpers (and the few they did encounter 'didn't' speak English) at all to help form and police the queues forming going into the stadium... You'd think at a World Cup there'd be helpers everywhere! They left about 15 minutes into the 2nd half as the heat (and direct sunlight) became unbearable...

    His advice was to get to the stadium as early as possible to try and avoid any bottlenecks (which will no doubt be amplified for the SA and Scotland games...) He's going again to the SA game and I'm going to the Scotland game and taking my 8yo to his first game of any description in any stadium, so I certainly want to avoid any queues/bottlenecks if at all possible.... Hopefully the organisers get a bit of a wake up call after Marseille on Saturday night and get more boots on the ground outside the stadia.. My brother also yesterday cancelled his hotel in Paris for the SA game and rebooked in the Ibis at the Stade for €100... so as to be within walking distance after the game!!


    I've only been in the Stade once in 2004 (France v Rep. of Ireland WC qualifier), and if memory serves me, the actual Stade metro stop was closed and they took us all off the metro 1 stop before Sint Denis? Is this still the case?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    @[Deleted User] great summary of Russell. He definitely plays as if he is in the Scottish team he wants and not the one he has. Imagine if he was in the Fijian team!! That would be entertaining 😂

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Just have to look at the schedule to see the bias towards Tier 1 nations.

    I just had a look there and the only Tier 1 nations who have a tight pool schedule with only 6/7/8 days between games are Australia and SA, but then they have 13/14 days before their quarter finals, if they make it that far.

    That's 2/10 teams.

    Of the other nations all of Uruguay, Namibia, Tonga, Portugal, Samoa and Chile only have 6/7/8 days between their pool games.

    That's 6/10 teams.


    Unless they prefer it like that, to save on hotel and other costs for an extra week.



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