Russia - threadbanned users in OP

amandstu · 10-09-2023 11:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095134#Comment_121095134

Could that friendly fire have been deliberate? Might they have been trying to prevent a retreat?

11-09-2023 12:08am

They might be close to Donetsk, but it will take months to control it. Another Bahkmut I'd wager

Danzy · 11-09-2023 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095248#Comment_121095248

It's a city of a million, bigger enchilada.

jmreire · 11-09-2023 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095224#Comment_121095224

That's the way I'd be reading it too.....seems to happen a lot with Russian forces. And for them its standard military doctrine.....face the enemy, and you have some chance, retreat and you have none!

Manic Moran · 11-09-2023 4:28am

For those saying that Ukraine's offensive has failed, I would observe that the doctrinal definition of defeat is "To render a force incapable of achieving its objectives." Since we don't know what the counteroffensive's objectives are, and we also wouldn't know if they are incapable of meeting them even if we knew what they were, to say that the offensive is succeeding or failing is quite the leap of conclusion.

mazdamiatamx5 · 11-09-2023 4:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095369#Comment_121095369

A rather Jesuitical analysis, no?

Manic Moran · 11-09-2023 5:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095373#Comment_121095373

People are quoting statements by US miltary personnel as to the success of Ukraine's operations. We tend to have fairly defined terminology, which occasionally gets overlooked by civilians.

mazdamiatamx5 · 11-09-2023 6:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095381#Comment_121095381

Ah OK. The problem with threads like this is that everyone's an armchair general. I myself am completely clueless but at least I admit it.

Rawr · 11-09-2023 6:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095369#Comment_121095369

Agreed. However I think some of these "the offensive has failed" posters a probably well aware how badly Russia are doing here. As I mentioned a few pages ago, their goal is to seed doubt of Ukraine's chances. It may also be a dose of "copeium" for them to try to reframe a rolling defeat of the Russian forces as somehow a defeat of Ukraine, despite the latter gaining ground at a rate the Russians could have only dreamt of for Bakmut.

TheValeyard · 11-09-2023 8:39am

Lol

breezy1985 · 11-09-2023 9:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095248#Comment_121095248

More like another Stalingrad.

Would be a waste of resources to try take right now.

Azza · 11-09-2023 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095419#Comment_121095419

From speaking with people I know who would primarily been following the war through normal news coverage without diving in too deep, there is a sense of Ukraine not doing too well or its a stalemate. There have been a number of stories in the main stream media that suggest Ukraine hasn't been doing too well. So for example the failed Ukrainian attack at the start of the offensive where a number of western supplied tanks and APC where knocked out by a Russian helicopter was widely covered, but what's come after that is less well known and with no spectacular breakthrough to exict them they kinda just assume its a stalemate.

The average person doesn't seem to grasp the change up in strategy that Ukraine quickly adapted after the initial setbacks nor do they see the constant stream of small successes that Ukraine publish video footage of that would be insignificant on their own but taking in their entirety indicate solid progress, nor do they regularly read some of the rather damning reports coming from Russian mill bloggers on telegram.

I think there is also still this lingering perception of Russia being invincible due to it's very well known victories over the massive forces of Napoleon and then Germany in WW2 but the majority having a complete blindspot towards Russia's military success rate in regional wars where the very existence of the Russian state and people where not under treat. Its far from a stellar record.

weisses · 11-09-2023 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095373#Comment_121095373

That would be an ecumenical matter

Field east · 11-09-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095880#Comment_121095880

Did not the US , UK et al. Not make a contribution re WW2 and you forgot to mention USSR’s - even much , much bigger than The Russian Federation - withdrawl from Afganistan?

Wibbs · 11-09-2023 10:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095880#Comment_121095880

With both Napoleon and Germany they were in an alliance of a few nations. Even with "General Autumn" and "Field Marshall Winter" they had a lot of help.

About the only war I can recall where they went it alone against an equal foe was the Crimean and they lost that.

Azza · 11-09-2023 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095906#Comment_121095906

Of course they did but I'm just talking about a general perception quite a number of people have that Russia is invincible. When it comes to WW2 people often don't distinguish Russia from the Soviet Union and are unaware of the scale of involvement of the other members of the USSR.

Seanmadradubh · 11-09-2023 10:38am

...

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1701127068409295337

fly_agaric · 11-09-2023 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096024#Comment_121096024

A brain fart moment (?)

If they are in ICC, they just face same issues as South Africa with a Putin visit.

The whole thing would be a headache and cause some kind of govt./judicial crisis so Putin will probably send one of his minions and/or dial in on a video call again.

If he/Russia force the issue they won't be thanked and they need all the "neutrals" they can get at this stage.

Dubh Geannain · 11-09-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095880#Comment_121095880

Really not helped by the likes of RTE that parrot a lot of reports by the Russians themselves. I don't mind them being repeated by it needs to be hammered home for the average joe that they have proven themselves to be 99% untrustworthy when it comes to any sort of claim.

Russian sources need to be flagged - "Viewer discretion is advised as some may find the following claims deeply fictitious while other might actually believe it".

pixelburp · 11-09-2023 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096024#Comment_121096024

Lula's little moment of "Anyone but US/NATO" got the better of him I guess, 'til someone in his office quietly pointed out the reality of the situation. I do somewhat appreciate Ukraine is a very far-away place to Brazil, while the US hasn't what you'd call a stellar history in Central or South America ... but still. As much as I'm delighted Bolsanaro has been consigned to the rubbish bin of history, Lula's ageing Leftie routine can be tiresome.

Rawr · 11-09-2023 11:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095880#Comment_121095880

There does certainly seem to be a perception of stalemate or disappointment of the AFU's progress from some news outlets. I would wish they'd consider framing this against the fact that Ukraine has still succeeded in progressivly pushing the Russians back against a critical strategic height despite:

Having to travers minefields
Fighting against prepared defensive earth-works
Dealing with tank traps
Struggling with their own supply challenges
And still managing all of this without air cover.

Frame their progress against all of that, I would dare say the AFU have been magnificent. I really wish the news would remember this when leveling a critic on thier progress.

Dubh Geannain · 11-09-2023 11:11am

More sea reclaimed. This happened a few weeks back at this stage I think but is being officially announced now.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1701162645548655077?s=20

Location -

Azza · 11-09-2023 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096095#Comment_121096095

Yeah some of it appears to be just lazy journalism as well. Back in July the New York Times posted an article saying 20% of the equipment Ukraine had for the offensive had been destroyed in the first 2 weeks of the offensive. What it should have made clear was that it was 20% of the equipment Ukraine had committed to the offensive so far at that point not 20% of the total equipment available to Ukraine for the offensive. Other news sources then ran with the same headline.

jmreire · 11-09-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095134#Comment_121095134

But you can bet your bottom dollar that the original inhabitants remember very well where they lived, and as soon as they can , they'll be back. And any Russian implants /transplants better be gone.

thomil · 11-09-2023 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096157#Comment_121096157

I think the logistics situation is significantly underappreciated in the west. In effect, Ukraine has to supply tow armies: One equipped with "legacy" USSR equipment of all shapes and sizes, and the other comprised of the western equipment provided over the last year and a half. This wasn't so much of an issue when most of the equipment provided was portable, from Panzerfausts to Javelins and NLAWs to Stingers, or even lighter vehicles. But nowadays, you've got Leopards, Challengers, AMX-10, M1 Abrams will soon be joining the fray. You've got M109s, PzH-2000s, M777s, Caesars, HIMARS, M270 MLRS, MARS-II, Gepard, Patriot, IRIS-T SLM/SLS, RBS-70 and God knows what else. And that's just the combat equipment, I haven't even touched on all the support vehicles. All of these require their own sets of spares and ammunition, have their own maintenance requirements and require specialized crew training. For Ukraine to be able to support the current level of operations, with the legacy corruption issues still present in their forces and faced with this veritable Gordian knot of logistical requirements is astounding.

Rawr · 11-09-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096293#Comment_121096293

Indeed. I feel that in the future, when we read about what the AFU pulled off here, the books written will describe a logisitics effort worthy of their own Viking Saga.