Cult of Stephen Kenny

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Kind of weird how much of the discussion on the Irish soccer team is around Kenny, and how little is on the way Irish football at grassroots is run.

We dont generate high quality world class footballers.

Last night for example, we are starting a division 4 player (or League 2 or whatever).

When we played Holland in 2001, the famous occasion where we scraped a win to finish second in our group, every starting player was a premier league regular; 4 or 5 of them with top clubs. And most of the subs too- like Lee Carsley, outstanding footballer wasnt good enough for that team.

So this cult of Kenny, to be honest almost as weird as the defenders of Kenny are the Kenny-haters; the lads on RTE spending half an hour saying why Kenny HAS TO GO - well done Richie, but so what we'll still be crap.

Did that happen in all of the groups Trap was in with us? Because it's happened to Stephen in the 3 groups now.

On a separate note it's great to see this thread alive with debate. Shows how many of us are banned or can't get into the soccer thread. That place is like the North Korea for threads the way it's policed.

I agree 100% limited technical teams should set up as hard to beat, if you don't concede many goals there is always a chance.

In Mick McCarthy's last qualifying campaign he only conceded 5 goals. and lost one game.

There were only four teams with better defensive records than Ireland in the whole of Euro 2020 qualifying - Turkey (3), Belgium (3) , Italy (4), Ukraine (4) - and they all qualified automatically for the Euro 2020.

You mean the approach of the last 20 years that made us competitive and able to hold our own against bigger teams, picking up results against the World Cup winners home and away being the two standout results in a long catalogue of big game performances?

Or are you happy to continue as we are now? A joke of a team managed by statistically the worst manager we’ve had in god knows how long? Not competitive in the slightest even against teams ranked well below us?

Funny you say that a one stay a mod started engaging with me recently (as a regular poster would) about Kenny etc

And says I -

'I better be careful because I know it does not take much to get banned from the forum if you go against a certain narrative'

As ages ago to my surprise - I received a short ban because I used the word 'deluded' referring to posters who were blinding supporting Kenny with religious fervour, in what I thought was a reasoned post taken as a whole. I was told in no uncertain terms not use such a word in future.

The amount of times I had to edit/re-read and look up synonyms to post in that Ireland thread since as gotten silly, because if they don't like your take on things - they only need a slight excuse. Then you are gone quicker than Stephen Kenny can quote his LOI record!

But is is more sensible than Kenny's vision for the following reasons - defensive football does not necessarily mean cowardice if done correctly - especially with set pieces or on the counter it shows intelligence.

Was Mourinho a 'coward' when his inter side beat Barcelona in 2010?

1) Kenny does not have the players to play in his own idealised style

2) A more defensively minded team always has a chance in soccer - especially if a team perfects their defensive and attacking set pieces - plus the fact Kenny had to throw Duffy up front the last day said a lot about what his approach should have been. In other words play to the teams strengths be direct, high energy, physical, set pieces. But Kenny

Which manager would I like to see next? Seems an obvious choice to me

High Profile - will help attracting players eligible for Ireland

International experience as a player and a manager

Managed at a high club level - knows what it takes with players of Ireland's level as well

Practical - not wedded to a philosophy, knows his football

Available - no compensation package needed

Irish - would likely take the job

The answer is Roy Keane.

Is this a satire post?

I mean, there is simply no comparison between that Inter Milan team and this Ireland team, why are you even using them as an example? It's a nonsensical exercise. BTW, you used the term coward when describing players passing side to side, not me.

Great, I look forward to Roy alienating half the team when we have a string of bad results before ultimately resigning.

You didn't obviously listen to it you? Mourinho is not an attacking coach, but a pragmatic one. He can play defensive football and counter attacking football within that as well.

Your false premise is that all defensive football is itself negative. I was not making a player by player comparison with Ireland and Inter Milan but tactical point on how teams can set up defensively and get results.

If done correctly and with a plan it works superbly - beating teams of much higher technical levels. It has even happened at International level

Denmark and Euro 92 - winners

Greece Euro 04 - winners

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And I also remember a match which proves how a well coached side beat the best where they had no right to on paper.

Ireland beat Germany 1-0 in a 2015 qualifier

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/812273/MatchReport/International-European-Championship-2014-2015-Ireland-Germany

Switerland beat Spain 1-0 in a group game in the 2010 world cup. I believe it was the only game Spain (the eventual winners) lost.

Switerland won with 27% possession

All of which fly in the face of your simplistic narrative - attacking football =good. Defensive football = bad.

You have already dismissed Keane before he starts based on nothing but your own biases about the man. And what you hope might happen in some far fetched scenario so you can laugh and talk Kenny up again.

But he is in my opinion a far more qualified manager than Stephen Kenny, and the most realistic candidate for the job - given the FAI's financial state.

Your whole goal seems to be an example of the title of this thread - a blind defence of Kenny complete with excuses. And the disparaging of past Irish managers or potential realistic future choices. In order to frame Kenny in a better light.

You still need good players to compete in a defensive style, why do you frequently ignore this? You started harping on about Big Jack earlier as evidence of how what we can achieve, blindly ignoring the fact that he had an excellent team and it was over 30 years ago. The game has moved on massively but I don't think you're even aware of that, or even understand it.

I have no ill feelings towards Roy Keane, I loved him as a player and he's a good pundit. But he's combative and has been pretty nasty in the past, Walters for example. Let's face it, he isn't a good coach, and your suggestion that he'll attract top foreign born talent to declare for us is fairytale stuff.

Dissmissed him based on nothing 🙄

You keep saying I've defended Kenny, I haven't really. I don't particular care if he stays or goes because nothing will change.

But keep wheeling out the videos of great teams playing defensive football 👍 looking forward to ceding possession to lesser ranked opposition like the glory days.

Yes, the approach that got us qualified for two major tournaments.

Yes Spain, Croatia & Italy hammered us. That was a disaster of a campaign, no arguments there. Being beaten comprehensively by the arguably the best international team to kick a ball there’s no shame in that. We were very unlucky against Croatia in the first game losing 3-1 to two preventable goals (can’t blame trap for individual errors by our most experienced players) and a blatant foul on our left back for their second goal. We bowed out tamely against Italy when the tournament was over for us a full week previously. But obviously you’re choosing to omit the fact that going into the tournament we were one of the most in form teams in Europe at the time. That’s a fact.

You can come back with as many arguments as you want, but you simply can’t deny the facts about Stephen Kenny. I can also counter your argument about Trap and Wes Hoolahan by asking why did Kenny leave a defender who was bought by a premier league club for €23m last week left on the bench for 90 minutes when Duffy was having a nightmare? Just one example on a long list of management failures from last night.

I was originally on the give him a chance side, I was happy for a while there that we were playing better football and thought the results would inevitably follow.

Obviously this has not happened. He looks increasingly out of his depth at international level. He's been given enough time, he's simply not good enough.

Unfortunately I think serious damage has been done to our international prospects during his tenure. And it's not because we had expected results like losing to France, Holland, Portugal etc. It's been the numerous awful results against teams lower in the rankings that has truly damaged our seeding/ranking level and that could take years to fix.

We used to be the 2nd or 3rd ranked team in a qualifying group, we'd dutifully get results against the teams below us in the group and try to get a draw or win against the top ranked teams to give us a chance of qualifying. Recently though we have failed to get the results against the lower teams, we've consistently underperformed in the nations leagues, getting relegated down through the ranks which means now we are going to get drawn in groups with 2 excellent teams ahead of us and very little chance of qualifying.

This is the product of Kenny's tenure, it's going to damage us for the next generation even though we actualy have a semi-decent squad of players and some promising players coming through.

Time to get rid of him before more dmaage is done.

If I was Carsley I would not take it - his reputation is at an all time high now. It would be madness.

Roy Keane - would love the Irish job that much is clear. And he should be given it IMO. He served his apprenticeship as MON's assistant, and managed at club level etc Best qualified candidate by miles.

And.... we used to have lots of top level players, and now we dont.

TBH - I think the performance of the national team exactly mirrors the quality of the players we have. I dont think Trappatoni or Mick McMacarthy would do any better.

Having said that, its defo time for him to go now. Once the crowd has turned, then move on.