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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Which still means renewables are cheaper than gas which has seen 100% price inflation. Does the government not use gas because it's price doubled overnight ?

    It's your logic which is myoptic at best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Your joking aren't you. Domestic septic tanks are a tiny problem compared to the intensive pig and chicken around Lough Neagh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Sure, it just has no mechanisms in place to control them.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I have no confidence in your wishful analysis.

    And you still haven't addressed the issues that we will a) be dependent on the kindness of strangers and b) with no certainty about the sustainability of the wind resource.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    In a trading situation then it's in the interests of both parties to trade, especially if you are a net exporter as we will be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Bollox. Ireland has very tight immigration controls



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,062 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    There is no guarantee we will be, not for quite a long time.

    And to your first point, thats a classic Brexiter type argument and look how that went.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    That's fine in normal times but when the crap hits the fan, states look after their own interests first and rightly so. We've seen it all before with the EU and not so long ago, after the financial crash. We must have some degree of independence when it comes to energy and electricity, if we going to commit to it so heavily. Agreements with the EU are all fine until things go pear shaped - look at Covid and how some states closed down travel and free movement without regard to the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,400 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The fact we have to put them in tents in Stradbally says otherwise but alas thats for a different thread. One thing both topics have in common though, the government officials are asleep at the wheel.

    Eitherway, increased population still means greater consumption of energy and resources. More people, more cars, more goods required, more building etc etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Brexit broke trading agreements - that was the whole point.

    We are part of a European wide energy market, you would have to go out of your way not to take advantage of it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Refugees are not dealt with in the same way as migrants and we are legally obliged to accept them - but even this is very tightly controlled.

    There is no open boarder policy , that is a right wing fantasy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    There is no and never can be any energy independence for Ireland when it is based upon fossil fuels. Recent history should have made that abundantly clear.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's enough threads already covering immigration surely



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Media is driven by advertising. It's why Murdoch fired his biggest star from Fox news, a huge portion of their advertising comes from Pharmaceuticals to end consumers and Fox news demographic are older. Big oil does not sell to end consumers, the refined product we use is not made by the majors. I've not seen them advertising directly to consumers in recent years, then again I don't consume much Murdoch media so maybe it bypasses me. It's unlikely big oil are behind an attack on EV ownership, I have not see the articles in question, which other consumer advertisers would have a interest in that? Perhaps car manufacturers who need to make money? Electric Vehicles Are Draining Billions From Profitable ICE Legacy Automakers With Ford Projecting $3 Billion in Losses.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Currently Irish data centres use as much electricity as all the households in Ireland. The projected expansion of the data centre sector would mean 3x the current electricity demand. That would require Ireland to increase its population to over 15million to have the same impact as the growth of data centres.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    More your maths I`m afraid. The link I was referring to compared a price for wind to gas that wind companies are not prepared to supply wind at.

    A price that is 10% higher allowing for U.K. inflation than last years successful bids for 7 Gigawatts. They are looking for an increase of 40% which is 6X times the rate of inflation. Attempting to compare the two is the green logic of comparing apples to oranges.

    So if these companies presently say the cannot supply at a price, allowing for inflation, that is 10% higher than last years successful bidders without losing money, where does that leave the holder of last years successful bids.

    If these companies presently are telling the truth, then if last years successful bidders fulfill those contracts for 7 Gigawatts will they not be losing money a well ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Inflation is an agrigate figure for all sectors. Inflation in each sector is different. Increases in the price of steel based upon the increase in the price of electricity are the reason why the figure is 40% for the wind sector. It's disengenious to ignore the specificity of sectorial cost increases - but I am sure you realise this ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Wouldn't have exported much in the past week. Wind turbines doing FA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The development of new services is going to require energy and right now all the investment is in automation and artificial intelligence (i.e. compute cycles). Behind one click shopping are large warehouses, where robots are increasingly being used for processing, robots may be faster, they are energy intensive.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Then we are also meant to move to electric cars and trains...bascially move everything electric. That's another doubling on top of your trebling.

    So these targets are just nonsense really. It's a measuring trick, because these data centres cover data from entire EU and will have to go somewhere. Preferably in a cooler climate like Ireland. The data centre portion of our emisssions should be extracted from Irelands emissions and allocated pro rata to entire EU.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Since we as a nation invited them in it is us as a nation who are responsible.

    What my point was though is that people have a poor understanding of the issues but use their little pet peeve (immigration in this case) to try to loop everything green into everything they hate. It's a wee bit sad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    As far as I can see we have one viable way forward on dependable electricity -- build at least one large LNG terminal and adequate gas storage, and use CCGT thermal plant. Also make sure we have enough gas peakers. Unfortunately, having foregone all that through a series of stupid decisions, we can now only await our stupid prizes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    No we are not responsible as its data for the entire EU. You could argue the EU has dumped these centers on Ireland and added it to our emissions unfairly, ie we are victims in this. These data centres have to go somewhere.

    Here's another measuring trick. Germany's emissions are down 40% since 1990. Why? Because they have de-industrialized - factories have shut down and moved to other countries in Asia. But those factories haven't disapperared, they are just emiitting their pollution in Asia instead.

    Here's another measuring trick. Why do we always speak about 1990 as the baseline? People say we need to cut 50% from 1990 levels. Because the Germans were smart , they picked the year of German re-unification for the baseline for EU emissions cuts. Why is that smart? Because most of hte polluting factories in ex communist East German shut in the subsequent years becuase they were unviable. Germany is claiming those cuts as part of its environmental efforts, when in fact they were always going to shut as they were built by the communists!



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,710 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I see we are making ourselves hopelessly reliant on Britain for energy once again because we've banned ourselves exploiting our own resources and are stalling on LNG. Madness.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    There are moves afoot to change the basis of climate reporting, with a set of new emissions scenarios taking shape for the next IPCC assessment report in five years time. It could like something like below. Hopefully it would mean no longer having to endure all those studies based on the utterly implausible RCP8.5 scenario. My bet would be on DAPD -- delayed action peak and decline. That allows a decade or two for us to realise that Green policies are utter failures, but that peak fossil fuel availability is staring us in the face, followed by a Manhattan Project 2 to build nuclear on a massive scale. We'd still get away with 2 degrees of warming, with relatively little consequence to global GDP.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I thought according to greens the cost of offshore was only going down, yet now we have wind generators saying the rate of inflation for their sector is 40% and are basically holding the U.K. government to ransom. So to ask yet again, where does that leave the holders of the contracts for last years 7 Gigawatts. Do you believe they are going to fullfil those contracts at a loss of 40% ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Your simply wrong about datacentres - we as an Irish government went out touting for their business - thats entirely on us and no one forced us to do it. If we don't want their emissions then don't invite them into your jurisdiction. We are responsible for their business whilst operating on Irish soil.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Shoog


    So you don't acknowledge that the cost of electricity has forced up the cost of the main raw material in wind turbines - something that the industry has absolutely no control over because most electrity is generated with gas.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That ban was a token gesture as there's really no fields that are commercially viable, maybe Inishkea. Even Barryroe only had about 30% of the Corrib field and those lads had no plans beyond "we might, maybe, possibly, look at pulling the gas, sometime, maybe, if we're bored while we extract the oil".

    Besides, as illustrated by Kinsale, and now Corrib, going after gas is a fools game as its a non-renewable source



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Why will you not answer the question you were asked ?

    You and others here have been telling us, even when it was clearly shown to be incorrect, that offshore wind prices were only going downwards.

    Now we have companies saying they need an increase of 40% on last years prices or they will be losing money, (irrespective of the massive increase to the already insane cost of Ireland`s all eggs in one basket proposal of 37 Gigawatts from offshore,) where does that leave that U.K. 7 Gigawatts from last year. Do you believe those companies they will honor those contracts and supply at a 40% loss or not ?



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