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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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    #9782
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100082#Comment_121100082

    If you've a problem with a new situation at work you go to your manager and say I've an issue here and work through it professionally. You do not stand up at the AGM and start a "dialogue" publicly with them.



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    #9783
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,651 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121098881#Comment_121098881

    Newsflash - there tends to be a lot of criminals in prisons. Kinda hard to avoid really

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #9784
    hoodie6029
    Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100757#Comment_121100757

    ‘PEACEFUL PROTEST, PEACEFUL PROTEST’ screamed in people’s faces springs to mind

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



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    #9785
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,754 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100704#Comment_121100704
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100757#Comment_121100757

    Jesus B&W that is news and explains a lot. Never heard of the CUS before. Are they the only members?

    I agree with you Cat but i'm just trying to get to the nub of the problem which seems to just be - religious nuts.



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    #9786
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,052 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    I feel sorry for all the other Burkes in Ireland applying for jobs, prospective employers will bin their job applications just in case they're related to the most unemployable family in the country.



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    #9787
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101316#Comment_121101316

    Supposedly over 100 members at the time that the Burkes were there. It, or some precursor to is, existed when I was in NUIG maybe a decade before that but I don't remember it ever coming to much attention at the time.

    It appears to have since been wound down; no longer appears on the list of societies on the Uni website, but there's a couple of different Christian societies listed now instead.



    EDIT - A quick google finds the NUIG CUS facebook page is still up, nothing posted since 2014. Interesting email address listed as a contact



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    #9788
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099999#Comment_121099999

    It is not a failing of the judicial system that if you don't acquiesce you've no other avenue, it is the absolute foundation rock of the judicial system.

    If we don't have a judicial system that requires acquiescence to its judgements, then we don't have a civilised society.

    So say, Larry Murphy didn't acquiesce with his sentence for murder, he should have had an alternative option to walk free? That is where your logic takes you. The judicial system has checks and balances, appeals and counter-appeals, sometimes there is a miscarriage of justice, but society accepts that price in order to have a functioning society.



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    #9789
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,412 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101833#Comment_121101833

    I wonder if he has access to that email address while in the 'joy? a scallywag might be tempted to drop him an email.



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    #9790
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/105748076#Comment_105748076

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/105748076/#Comment_105748076

    Post in the original thread detailing how the Burke's managed to take control of the Christian Union in NUI Galway.



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    #9791
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,754 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101950#Comment_121101950

    That is crazy stuff B&W but a great read. There's a Kezia too?? Mad names for a mad family.



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    #9792
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,001 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100018#Comment_121100018

    The school will then apply for and get a barring order preventing him from turning up at the school - Breach of a barring order is a criminal offence and not civil/contempt so it changes the game.

    Can a school apply for a barring order?

    I'm no sure they can.



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    #9793
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,754 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103802#Comment_121103802

    I think they can only be got in domestic violence instances.



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    #9794
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103802#Comment_121103802

    They've already been told they can , they just haven't done it yet.

    Once he is no longer an employee ,his attendance at the school becomes a matter of simple trespass and not some kind of civil/employment dispute.

    A barring order is a slam dunk given his behaviours up to this point.



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    #9795
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103802#Comment_121103802

    I'd imagine they most certainly could if he was there for more nefarious reasons.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #9796
    chooseusername
    Registered Users Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104140#Comment_121104140

    Would the barring order stop him from standing outside the school property where he is not trespassing? I doubt a judge would grant an order to not come within say a mile of the school.



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    #9797
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104195#Comment_121104195

    Why not?

    Barring orders of that kind are given out all the time?

    Not necessarily a mile , but certainly orders barring someone from being in close proximity to the applicant are fairly standard.

    I can't see a judge refusing an application barring him from standing outside the gates given all that has gone on.

    Judges will be in no mood to give him any leeway whatsoever.



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    #9798
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,001 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104140#Comment_121104140

    Under what mechanism can they apply for a barring order? I can't find one example outside a domestic abuse setting that a barring order was granted.

    Him being still being paid by the Department does not nullify criminal law.

    If that was the case he would be suing for wrongful arrest when he was already arrested for trespassing.

    What should have happened was he was charged for criminal trespass and under his bail conditions prohibited from going anywhere near the school, if he did then bail revoked into Mountjoy until his case was heard. Found guilty and as condition of what probably would have been a suspended sentence ordered not to go near the school or the suspended part would be revoked.

    That's what would have happened to literally everyone else on this Island, but not this creep for reasons I can't fathom.



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    #9799
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I think its a case of some commonly used terms have gotten mixed up here.

    "Barring Order " is the term used in DV cases, but I think Quin_Dub is referring to the permanent High Court Injunction which Justice Owens already ruled WHS was entitled to.



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    #9800
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,001 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104246#Comment_121104246

    That's a civil injunction, breaking the terms of a barring order is a criminal offence.

    That's why he is current incarcerated on contempt and has not been charge with any offence.



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    #9801
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104285#Comment_121104285

    Semantics.

    I think we all know what was meant by the use of the term "Barring Order".



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    #9802
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I wouldn't rule out another member/s of family taking up a position at the school in lieu of Enoch



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    #9803
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,001 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104329#Comment_121104329

    Well no it's not semantics at all they are 2 very different things.

    If this creep isn't dealt with criminally like every other person on the island would be you are giving him exactly what he wants.

    Martyrdom.

    The narrative being peddled by fairly wealthy organisations worldwide is that this man has been incarnated indefinitely without having committed any crime and is there solely because of his religious beliefs.

    I think the patience that has been shown is unbelievable, time to take back that narrative for the sake of the school, staff and kids who have been fúcked out to dry and fend themselves. It's extremely tough to watch and read the principal basically begging for help.



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    #9804
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104358#Comment_121104358

    You're preaching to the choir.

    It will eventually be treated as criminal when the DAP hearing has gone ahead, and he then trespasses with Justice Owens permanent injunction is in place.



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    #9805
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,001 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104435#Comment_121104435

    I have no idea what a DAP hearing is, but no hearing nullifies criminal law.

    He was already arrested for criminal trespass and a file sent to the DPP.



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    #9806
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104448#Comment_121104448

    DAP = Disciplinary Appeal Panel. The independant hearing of his appeal against his dismissal (which he is entitled to) has still not gone ahead, so he is still technically an employee.

    The DPP decided not to proceed with the earlier criminal trespass charge from January.

    It is reported that when EB returned at the start of the new school year and WHS contacted the Gardaí, the Gardaí responded that it was a civil matter.



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    #9807
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,001 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104502#Comment_121104502

    Disciplinary Appeal Panel. The hearing of his appeal has still not gone ahead, so he is still technically an employee.

    Doesn't matter, purge laws don't exist because of that. He has no reasonable excuse to be at the school and he has certainly no excuse to be running around trying to gain entry though unlocked doors.

    Again, this is a school that contains 100s of literal children not a warehouse or factory.

    Child protection laws are supposed to be over engineered, they have absolutely no idea what this guy is capable of.

    The DPP decided not to proceed with the earlier criminal trespass charge.

    Indeed, no explanation was given.

    It is reported that when EB returned at the start of the new school year and WHS contacted the Gardaí, the Gardaí responded that it was a civil matter.

    Again, no explanation given.

    TBF to the Gardaí their hands are tied by a cowardice DPP.



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    #9808
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104448#Comment_121104448

    The issue up to this point is that he remains an employee of the school so he can and does claim that him being present at the school is a civil/employment law matter making is very difficult for the Gardai to intervene legally when he's standing at the door etc.

    Once he is officially fired (on completion of his appeal) that "defence" goes away and if he turns up and is asked to leave and he refuses it's a simple case of trespass whereas now he can say "I'm a paid employee , this is a dispute about working conditions" (or whatever) and the Gardai can only ask him to leave , they can't force him nor can they arrest him.

    The school have been trying to avoid getting him locked up again as they feared it would further delay the DAP meaning that the nonsense would continue.

    That and Enoch would continue to collect his Salary.



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    #9809
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I think everything hinges on the outcome of the Disciplinary Appeal Panel hearing.

    That's if Justice Dignam would ever gets his finger out and give his ruling on the temporary injuction EB won against it going ahead.

    The DAP's appeal against that injunction was heard on 8 August, but for some reason, no ruling has been made yet.

    It's likely the reason WHS delayed seeking EB's re-commital for long, in the hopes that the DAP could proceed.

    Once that goes ahead, and the even .0001% of EB ever being reinstated is legally ruled out, then the whole game changes.



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    #9810
    lmao10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭lmao10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104557#Comment_121104557

    I still think he will continue to go to the school. I think he and the family are willing to have him jailed for life over this.

    Serious questions have to be asked about home schooling and letting kids end up like this.



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    #9811
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I suppose the question that should be asked is: has the school asked for/included a distance restriction, similar to that used in barring orders, from the school perimeter to be applied to the offender and his family by court order when any of the case were heard and decided on by the high court.

    Such a restriction, if/when given by court order, should call a halt to illegal activities by any of the Burke family made liable to obey the order.



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