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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,201 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal



    Clearly not, if you think the post is attacking Christians, and not so-called Christians. The post speaks in favorable terms about the teachings of Christ. So I think you should rethink your definition of perfectly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I think it's more a comment on people who espouse Christianity but then vote for a philandering rapist who is antithetical to basic Christian values. And I wouldn't say that's all Christians or anything, Mormons for example have very little time for Trump and have traditionally voted GOP.

    It's largely the more showy and extreme Christian groups in the form of Evangelical Christians that predominantly vote Trump. And probably more a reflection of the more wish fulfillment style beliefs that exists in those churches. Also incredibly focused on wealth and displays of it.

    Reminded of that false gods thing and who you worship, if Trump is who you view as a good moral leader then you're in the false gods territory...



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Well as Ultra MAGA has admitted as much to recently, Jesus' teachings "liberal" and "weak"

    By every appearance the goal is to only use religion as a crude instrument to direct these swaths of people not as a means to courage of convictions. As a means to win elections and power.

    Moore told NPR in an interview released Tuesday that multiple pastors had told him they would quote the Sermon on the Mount, specifically the part that says to “turn the other cheek,” when preaching. Someone would come up after the service and ask, “Where did you get those liberal talking points?”

    “What was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be, ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak,’” Moore said. “When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.”

    Moore said he thinks a large part of the issue is how divisive U.S. politics are, which is now spilling over into the church. He pointed to how a lot of issues are “packaged in terms of existential threat,” leading to the belief among everyone, not just evangelical Christians, that “desperate times call for desperate measures.”

    The strange good news of that is as Ancap touched on, it will be the tearing down, by its own, of Christian hegemony. When you can openly throw out Jesus on a whim, the core tenets of the religion break down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,201 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Yeah, I saw that a while ago and it clearly shows just how corrupt American, or at least certain parts of American "Christianity" has become. When you have an Evangelical leader calling the teachings of Christ "liberal", you really are through the looking glass.

    Of course Christ was a fucking liberal. His outlook was liberal in nearly everything that's written about him in the Bible.

    Now, I say this as an avowed agnostic and I, personally, am not even sure that Jesus Christ even existed. At least not in the sense that we are told in the Biblical terms. But the thrust of the man's words and the movement that was named after him are very clear. Love thy neighbour and do onto others as you would have done onto yourself. This is the central tenet of all religions basically.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The other aspect of US Evangelicalism that is bonkers is the end times/rapture beliefs, it's a big part of support for Israel. It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but if the Jews end up not liking Jesus they're off to hell. I wonder what the effect of failed end of the world predictions has on people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,201 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Oh yeah. The whole rapture/Armageddon malarkey is off the charts.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,354 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've had this tactic recently deployed against me elsewhere, weirdly: I specifically criticised American Christian Conservatism and the user just extrapolated it into a big "oh so you're hate Christianity now eh?" Sealion attack post. The old "so much for the inclusive liberal" bad faith tactic.

    It's so stupid cos the branch of American Christian Evangelical churches are very different beasts if people bothered looking. Not least they would have nothing to do with us papists,.so no kinship there for a start ; and as you pointed out they're so unChristian in their deeds; while any derived church that believes in the Wealth Bible as a philosophy does not get a free pass of respect.

    "You're poor/sick because you're sinful therefore you deserve it? Wealth is a sign god likes you?" Haha. Yeah, fúck off with that supposed Christianity.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,578 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    American Christians always reminded me of the bible story about Jesus throwing the money men out of church. They've definitely taken Christianity and made it their own. It's been shaped into yet another money-making tool and they all seem fine with it. Kurt Andersen's Fantasyland covers it extremely well.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    Imagine thinking you get to decide who is and isn't a Christian , and worse than that, judging them by projecting your own paranoid neuroticism onto them. Gaslighting on an extreme new level this is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    @MisterAnarchy They think child trafficking is a right wing conspiracy theory. #BeyondHope



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,354 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Do you think the "Wealth Bible" matches the teachings of Christ, or indeed matches broad strokes adherence to the overall Christian church? Do you think it's Christian to dismiss the poor or sick as somehow being punished for some abstracted notion of sinfulness?

    I'm not deciding anything if you bothered reading instead of kneejerk responses to chide criticisms of an obviously flawed philosophy ... just because it's "the other side" doing it; that's not especially enlightened either. And it's only "paranoia" if I believe the US Christians are out to get me - which ... ya know. They're not?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Based on the teachings of Jesus, yes we get to decide who’s Christian or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    What is the one thing, do you think, above all other things that makes a person a Christian?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,610 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Who thinks child trafficking is a right wing conspiracy theory?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,354 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The Sound of Freedom came out and now all those pitching their flag with team Trump think criticisms of it are deniers of trafficking.? Seems like a timely bit of mania. It's so bone headed and irrational - praying on a bit of Helen Lovejoy hysterics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Just because this needs to be pointed out again

    Here’s a list of convicted Republican Pedophiles: Feel free to research these people independently.


    Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.


    Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.


    Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.


    Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.


    Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.


    Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.


    Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.


    Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.


    Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.


    Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.


    Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.


    Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.


    Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.


    Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.


    Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.


    Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.


    Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman* was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.


    Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.


    Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.


    Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks* was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.


    Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.


    Republican preacher Stephen White*, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.


    Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.


    Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.


    Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.


    Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.


    Republican politician Andrew Buhr* was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.


    Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).


    Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl.


    Republican County Councilman Keola Childs* pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.


    Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.


    Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.


    Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.


    Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter* pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.


    Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.


    Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.


    Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.


    Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall* was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.


    Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.


    Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.


    Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.


    Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was charged with rape for allegedly paying a 15-year old girl for sex. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young.


    Republican state senator Ralph Shortey from Oklahoma admitted to being involved in sodomy with a 17 year old male prostitute and transporting child pornography.


    Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert in jail for the payments he made to cover up raping his wrestlers when he was a high school coach.


    Republican Judge and campaign official Tim Nolan for President Donald Trump indicted for human trafficking and forcing a minors (9) to engage in sexual activity and giving alcohol to minors (results from the court pending).


    Edit: *Please note that this list is not up to date…*



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    You attend the church of our lady of the perpetually offended? I would tend to question the morals of anyone who backs a rapist, I guess I just have a moral line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,528 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Is this whining because the Grift movie isn't being Oscar Nominated with 5 billion box office take?

    #BeyondHope indeed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Imgaine being a christian and calling the literal messiah of your religion and embodiment of God on earth "woke" and "too liberal" for saying its nice to be nice to others. Im no expert but calling your deity wrong might be at odds with being a member of that religion?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,433 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    I think there is quite the symmetry between right wing Christianity and Trumpism.


    Right wing Christians redefining what religion is to make it fit with what they ultimately believe it should be.


    Right wing republicans redefining what republicanism is to make it fit with what Trump says.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The most insane thing is that all these supposed Christians, who claim that the US is a Christian country, fail to realise that Jesus was a socialist. He believed that those who have should look after those who don't. He believed in healing the sick, for free! He didn't like violence, turn the other cheek, yet Americans believe that they should arm themselves to the teeth.

    He wrecked the temple because the priests were using it to get money, rather than look after the people, the exact opposite of the fundamentalist preachers that earn millions.

    He wanted those looking for shelter and refuge to be looked after, not vilified as an invasion.

    And yet they all side with Trump, who is pretty much the opposite of what the bible teaches us to be.

    Jesus would hate the US.

    Post edited by Leroy42 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    He's using Trump's definition of perfect, as in a perfect phone call being anything but.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,578 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Most, if not all of my family are full on DUP types and they love Trump. It fits perfectly with conservatism.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,578 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    People have always twisted religion to suit their purposes. Even the devil has done so in the bible.

    It's always been this way. The ten commandments explicitly forbid murder and make no exception and yet it was fine for hordes of Christians to descend on the middle east to engage in an orgy of violence.

    Jesus explicitly says that people ought to pay their taxes ("Render unto Caesar...") but the American God helps those who help themselves.

    I struggle to think of anything more American than the idea that someone, be it liberals, communists or foreigners, are coming to take what's yours so you'd better have your guns ready.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,610 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Jesus: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God"

    Trump:

    Not to mention the diverting of charitable donations to his own businesses, not paying people, and doing everything he can to appear even richer than he is.

    F*ck sake.... the man is an affront to Christianity...



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Or even just not being able to name his favourite verses of the Bible, or holding it up correctly



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,354 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Ah yeah, but we all know by now that the evangelicals have simply hand-waved away Trump's brazen UnChristian behaviour in that he is the "imperfect vessel", to use their exact language. Not like the "traditional" churches are immune to selective reading of their own teachings - but the American Evangelical circuit lead the way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,578 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I see Trump as the embodiment of Conservative Christianity if I'm being honest. He just abandoned the trappings.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Evangelical viewpoint that anything and everything bad that happens to you is your own fault and because you did not pray hard enough is my personal favourite.

    Poor - Didn't pray hard enough , Sick - Didn't pray hard enough.

    Allows them to ignore anyone they like by simply saying "They didn't show God enough love" and also means they can defend things like cuts to Social programs , education and health care because "God helps those who help themselves" and "Hand-outs are for the weak"

    A form of religion based on absolute fealty and subjugation of self in the pursuit of "showing god enough love so that he doesn't smite you" and one where giving over a large percentage of your earnings to the church is expected.

    Yeah...Not a cult , definitely not a cult.



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