What’s your most controversial opinion? Read OP Mod Note in Post #3372

Potential-Monke · 11-09-2023 10:45pm

What I don't understand is how we can import €53 million worth of tomatos but also export €2 million worth... Why are we exporting something we're paying a lot to import?! And no doubt that happens with a hape of products.

kneemos · 11-09-2023 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099177#Comment_121099177

Free market presumably. If a grower gets a buyer abroad off they go. May be part of ready meals or something also.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 8:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099177#Comment_121099177

Probably to do with the type of tomatoes? Some for cooking sauces, some for table tomatoes, restaurants and so on.

Wibbs · 12-09-2023 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033202#Comment_121033202

Cars are so much safer than they were and get better with the passing years which is brilliant, but even with crumple zones and more airbags than the Dail, the energies involved in impacts are huge(cars have also gotten much heavier too which increases forces on its own). If you look at official crash tests, in most cases the speeds for passing/failing are 30-60kph tops. it can be easy to forget that traveling at 80Kph, a pretty "slow" speed on a half decent half straight road that most of us wouldn't think twice about, is massively ramping up the energies that are going to be involved if you lose control and hit a tree, a wall, or roll over. If you hit another car coming the opposite direction also doing 80Kph... In essence you've run into a tonne and a half object at 160Kph.

Another angle to take is look at what motorsport requires to make a rally car "safer". Stuff like strengthened bodyshells, approved roll cages welded into the bodyshell, approved one piece racing seats, four point harnesses, fire suppression systems, fuel/electrical cutoffs etc, all constantly checked and passed by scrutineers and of course they're not facing oncoming traffic and have drivers with high expertise/talent. And tragedies still happen where people are badly injured or killed.

Driving is pretty much the most potentially dangerous pursuit most of us do regularly.

magicbastarder · 12-09-2023 11:03am

as i'm fond of pointing out, many (most, i suspect) motorists don't realise that energy (and thus braking distance) squares with speed.

going from 50km/h to 80 is a 60% increase in speed, but the energy and braking distance at 80 is over two and a half times that at 50km/h.

BrianD3 · 12-09-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100141#Comment_121100141

You've probably seen this before, a track crash with caged (and probably seam welded?) saloons that was more like a road crash in terms of angle. I'd say the closing speed was close to 200 km/h. Had the cars been RHD very possibly two fatalities. I often wondered if the superior strength and safety of the road Mercedes 190 compared to the road Ford Sierra played any part of the 190 deforming less here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B4gAoJTSgw

Greyfox · 12-09-2023 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097886#Comment_121097886

Your talking nonsense, a 10 year old voting? That's utterly ridiculous

Wibbs · 12-09-2023 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100287#Comment_121100287

I'd reckon the differences between the damage and the base road model would be more dumb luck than engineering. You can even see the welded in cage deform into the cabin space on the Merc. If that had been two everyday cars even with all the modern safety kit I'd be very surprised to see occupants walk away without at best serious life changing injuries. Doubly so as it wasn't quite head on, more a side angle impact to the front which actually injures or kills more people than any other kind of car to car crash.

And of course in my previous post I neglected to mention that race car drivers wear flame resistant clothes, extensive neck supports and crash helmets which give a lot of extra protection. Blunt force head/brain/spine injuries cause most fatalities in car crashes on our roads.

magicbastarder · 12-09-2023 1:43pm

i assume you've seen this? the difference between two (now old) people carriers, but with nine years of safety development between them.

i vaguely remember reading that if you're driving an old car, it's now more dangerous to drive it than when it was new. say your car dates from the year 2000; the difference between the damage done to your car if a 2023 car crashes into it will be greater than a car contemporary to yours would; partly due to weight but also partly due to the way modern cars are designed to keep the energy of the collision outside the cockpit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxLlFm3VUA

BrianD3 · 12-09-2023 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100916#Comment_121100916

Old cars that are still on the road today experience a triple whammy when it comes to safety. They were much less safe than current cars when they were new. They may now have rust, weakening them further. And if they collide with a newer vehicle, as you say, that vehicle will likely be much more rigid and probably heavier than a vehicle from their own era

When I say old though I really mean 1990s and earlier designs. The red Espace in that video is a mildly updated mid 80s design. The vast majority of cars from this design era are scrapped. Huge improvements in car safety happened between about 1998 and 2008 and many such cars are still reasonably safe even though they would now receive 0 stars if tested by EuroNCAP.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100711#Comment_121100711

Why is it ridiculous? Serious question. Can you lay out why it's ridiculous?

Become Death · 12-09-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097915#Comment_121097915

Its not an argument. It's just plainly obvious that allowing 10 year olds to vote is without a doubt, a terrible idea. I think the amount of people with dementia voting is miniscule in comparison to the amount of children under the age of 18 who would be allowed to vote.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101347#Comment_121101347

Sure, as you said, you haven't made an argument.

What I'm asking for is an argument that can be applied across the board, that reasonably precludes every ypung person under 18 from voting, that also reasonably allows everyone over 18 to vote. Can you make that argument?

Greyfox · 12-09-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101224#Comment_121101224

Its simple really, they are children and children do not have the life experience or knowledge to be able to vote.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 4:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101831#Comment_121101831

Should we test the general population for life experience and knowledge before allowing them to vote?

Knowledge of what, exactly?

Become Death · 12-09-2023 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101859#Comment_121101859

Why do we have age limits on sexual activity, films, alcohol, smoking among other things?

Become Death · 12-09-2023 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101224#Comment_121101224

Because when we say that an adult has the intelligence of a ten year old, iit is an insult and meant to convey that they are not capable of thinking like an adult. Adults who think like children are few and far between. Children

You want literal children to be able to vote.

Children are easily manipulated too.

Politicians who want genuinely good and proper schooling for children would be running for votes. Wouldn't be as popular to children as a politician who vowed to "ban homework, make it a 2 day week and have free sweets for lunch".

griffin100 · 12-09-2023 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101388#Comment_121101388

No one who believes in Santa should be allowed to vote :)

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101889#Comment_121101889

Because there's direct physical harm to the individual, I should think.

The post you quoted had a question which you didn't try to address. Care to give it a go?

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101915#Comment_121101915

So if it's about intelligence, should we have intelligence tests before allowing people to vote?

There's no question of disallowing people with learning disabilities or low IQ or those who are easily manipulated to vote. We just let them on to vote. Should we test for those things?

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102063#Comment_121102063

I get the joke. Imagine if we considered excluding people based on unreasonable beliefs about supernatural beings who keep naughty/nice ledgers on everyone and reward the good and punish the naughty, then we'd be in real trouble.

Rothko · 12-09-2023 6:57pm

This has to be one of the oddest arguments I've ever seen on this site.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102303#Comment_121102303

Odd that it's so obviously ridiculous, and nobody seems to be able to make a cogent argument against under 18s voting that would also apply to those over 18.

magicbastarder · 12-09-2023 8:33pm

Speaking personally, there's a difference between able and willing. I'm not willing to entertain the debate by bothering with a counter argument.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-09-2023 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102596#Comment_121102596

Of course. It's all so simple that nobody is willing or able to make the argument. I'm sure you have it on the tip of your tongue, and instead of making the argument, you instead post to explain why you shouldn't make the argument.

That's not really how things work, is it? In truth, it's what people do when they thought an argument would be simple to construct, but when they actually think about it, it isn't so simple. So instead they post about how they totally could make the argument, but won't.

Rothko · 13-09-2023 12:51am

Yep, one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this site and that's really saying something.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-09-2023 8:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103345#Comment_121103345

Ah lads. Its easier to say an argument is dumb than to explain why it's dumb.

All I'm asking for is a cogent argument against under 18s voting that would also apply to those over 18.

If its such a dumb idea then it should be easy for you to make the argument @Rothko

Hoop66 · 13-09-2023 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103582#Comment_121103582

The argument is basic maturity. Yes, there are plenty of mature-for-their-age under-18s, and yes there are plenty of immature adults (I am one of them). But 18 is generally accepted as the age of becoming an adult.

Trying to make it about anything other than that is just pissing about.

Become Death · 13-09-2023 8:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102083#Comment_121102083

No because we can safely say that the majority of adults do not think like children.

We can safely say that the majority of children, do in fact, think like children.

13-09-2023 8:51am

The notion of "ethnicity" and the special treatment stemming from it should be abolished.

You;re either an Irish citizen or resident in the Ireland and no discrimination, positive or otherwise should be applied.

What’s your most controversial opinion? **Read OP** **Mod Note in Post #3372**

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What’s your most controversial opinion? Read OP Mod Note in Post #3372