2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

Ben Bailey · 12-09-2023 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102987#Comment_121102987

Jordan was particularly poor & was fortunate to see only one YC. Kicking to contest becomes kicking to force the catcher into error rather than to regain possession.

kuang1 · 13-09-2023 1:19am

Having had a long chat with a good rugby pal tonight, I've (we've) realised that there are multiple negative aspects to this WC so far, unfortunately.

I kind of knew that they all existed, but it's a little disheartening when they're all listed off together:

(and in no particular order of importance)

1) the rules and consequences over head collisions being utterly farcical and random

2) the child's choir singing national anthems (they're not even there as they sing!!!)

3) the lack of personnel to accommodate swift entry to the stadia resulting in queues and fans missing kick off

4) the lack of replays... Blatantly obvious. Has to be a directive given how obvious it is, but doubt we'll get honest acknowledgement of that.

5) journalists reporting that facilities are sub-par at venues-not even basic WiFi provided (as per gerry thornley)

6) the ticket website is a holy joke. Only positive is that France have the same rules as Ireland about ticket touting. But good luck trying to get a ticket legitimately given how much time the site spends "under maintenance"

7) the realistic potential of strike on public transport or air traffic control.

8) the main stadium (stade de France) is located in an area where the standard advice if attending a game there is to "not hang around". (unless you're a Liverpool supporter in 2022)

9) France might win it.

kuang1 · 13-09-2023 1:38am

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kuang1 · 13-09-2023 2:22am

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Buer · 13-09-2023 7:44am

I'm not sure outlawing jumping would be beneficial ultimately (I'd also be shocked if it was even on the agenda). In the amateur era, full backs didn't jump to field their high kicks as they needed to have their feet planted to call the mark. This meant that chasers concentrated almost entirely at completely obliterating them as hard as they could to force a spill.

That was in the amateur era of 75-80kg wingers. Do that with wingers who are anything up to 105kg and it's a different story. Ollivon was red carded for Toulon in the Challenge Cup semi final for making head contact with the Treviso player. Neither player jumped, Ollivon just wanted to smash him. It would remove the danger of taking someone out in the air but increase the chances of other injuries, I would guess.

TheRona · 13-09-2023 8:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102987#Comment_121102987

Yeah, you're supposed to be in a position to compete for the ball, but I'd argue they should make the law that you're in a position to catch the ball.

Quin_Dub · 13-09-2023 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103654#Comment_121103654

Agreed - Simple solution , not unlike the guidance around slapping down a pass/deliberate knock-on.

The player needs to be in a realistic position to catch the ball , that means BOTH hands up and watching the ball etc.

fitz · 13-09-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103654#Comment_121103654

Yup, could get on board with that idea. Having said that, would it affect the lineout? Are there lineout specific laws or does the same law govern contact in the air at lineout and in open play?

ionadnapokot · 13-09-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121102376#Comment_121102376

Its just odd that they think telling the truth is the wrong answer. It points to an insecurity in the group.

If Ireland score the first try against SA I'm confident of victory. If it's an early try it could be a 10-15 point wining margin.

TheRona · 13-09-2023 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104199#Comment_121104199

Lineout laws specify that you can catch or deflect the ball.

I don't think there's any specific laws regarding competing for a ball that's in the air, apart from being penalised for dangerous play: A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.

I think it's just one of those things in rugby. It's obviously been agreed that being off the ground and in a position where you can get a hand to the ball is good enough.

fitz · 13-09-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104271#Comment_121104271

Could benefit from a bit more structure in the laws for sure, then.

Quin_Dub · 13-09-2023 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104199#Comment_121104199

The lineout is covered - Player must use either both hands or the inside arm only (to prevent the old behaviour of using the inside arm to lean on/push down the opponent ). They also have to go straight up , jumping across into the opponent is already a penalty offence

sydthebeat · 13-09-2023 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104442#Comment_121104442

Player must use either both hands or the inside arm only

they have changed that recently enough to now say:

A jumper may catch or deflect the ball with the outside arm only if they have both hands above their head

so while still making levering illegal, it allows for an outside arm catch or deflection

Clegg · 13-09-2023 1:05pm

England's coaches are saying looking bad in the warm ups was part of the plan. Beasting yourself physically in pre-season with a view of peaking later is a legitimate tactic.

So what was the excuse for the preceding Six Nations? And the actual game against Argentina where they still played terribly, but their opposition were worse? They played with more intensity than a few months ago, but their discipline and execution in attack is still dreadful.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/england-coach-admits-looking-terrible-30926661?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

pickarooney · 13-09-2023 1:06pm

If the ball is thrown straight and the jumper is not across the gap it'd be hard enough to use the outside arm

pixelburp · 13-09-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104738#Comment_121104738

There's a whole world cup to make these words look retrospectively foolish or prescient; but what sports team of any creed would set itself out to intentionally play shíte - just to throw off potential opponents?

The suggestion that a squad of intense, committed professionals would all buy into a game plan to play rubbish, it just doesn't compute. No pro wants to play badly by accident, let alone deliberately.

I've heard of plenty of teams hiding their final tournament strategy by playing something different, defaulting to conservative tactics than give away the Big Masterplan of plays and strategies, for instance - but outright playing poorly by design, such that people think the team's in trouble?

Snort.

13-09-2023 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104768#Comment_121104768

From the article it's more that they pushed the team into fatigue and didn't ease off for the games. This is the most pertinent quote:

Walters added: "With the crash course we were on, we couldn’t afford to row back early, as other teams did. We just didn’t have enough prep done. So yeah, we looked leggy, but to get someone fitter you almost have to dig them into a hole first to allow them to recover then come out stronger.”

It's still complete BS but he's banking on a bit of momentum getting England back on track for the knock outs. He'll never mention it again if they struggle in the pool or get knocked out in a quarter final.

pickarooney · 13-09-2023 2:15pm

Next they'll say they've been practising playing with 14 players for the same reason.

Quin_Dub · 13-09-2023 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104799#Comment_121104799

Having beaten Argentina, they are now looking at a potential QF against Wales , which is definitely winnable.

So , despite being utter shite , England have a decent shot at a Semi-Final which is a dreadful indictment of the imbalance of the draw.

Wales potentially getting to a SF is equally annoying given their form over the last 18 months or so..

ersatz · 13-09-2023 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105217#Comment_121105217

It might all work out fine but there are now quite a few reasons to wonder about the quality of the executive team in WR. The draw happening so far out was foolish and needlessly cautious, it seemed a bizarre idea at the time and has revealed itself to have been a major error that has potentially undermined the quality of the competition.

Then the inconsistencies around rule changes points to poor strategic planning and a real lack of urgency about getting refs, ARs, TMOs and appeals processes on the same page with regard to discipline and the application of laws. The offside stuff is a sh*tshow for example, nevermind the head shot stuff.

overall there’s a feeling that things haven’t been lined up for the showcase as well as they easily could have been.

Cookiemunster · 13-09-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105683#Comment_121105683

They've been doing the draws 2-3 years out since at least the 2003 world cup, if not earlier. I've no idea how you were so surprised about it.

Ardillaun · 13-09-2023 4:39pm

Ford must be delighted he did so well without you know who.

ersatz · 13-09-2023 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105738#Comment_121105738

Yes but rugby has changed dramatically in recent years, the top has tightened up and tier 2 teams are far more competitive. WR hasn’t kept up with that landscape. They should have and are responsible for ensuring that the WC makes a decent fist of establishing who the best team is while giving lower ranked teams a means of advancing. It’s very basic but I’m not surprised. I guess I feel this is the year when chickens come home to roost.

pickarooney · 13-09-2023 7:10pm

South Africa have selected all four scrumhalves in their 23 to play Romania...

13-09-2023 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106346#Comment_121106346

Can you imagine if one of them got injured and was replaced by Pollard in the squad.

Enzokk · 13-09-2023 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106346#Comment_121106346

That squad is so unbalanced. You cannot tell me that a centre/wing wouldn't have been a better option than Williams/Reinach to cover the wing. Or even a flyhalf to not have De Klerk as your third flyhalf in the squad. Then to have 7 loose forwards and have Mostert that has played there as well as a lock, just so unbalanced. They will get away with it against the weaker teams and are hoping for no injuries in the 23, but that is a big gamble that is being taken.

sydthebeat · 13-09-2023 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106519#Comment_121106519

At this stage of say they're praying for a back row injury

Rugbymad2020 · 13-09-2023 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106519#Comment_121106519

Grant Williams has played wing plenty times before.

Dave_The_Sheep · 14-09-2023 12:34am

Insightful.

typhoony · 14-09-2023 7:55am

Would be interesting to look back at 2019 and see if they did something similar, it's almost borderline disrespectfully to the other team. To be honest we should be doing similar

2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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