Glasnevin Cemetery Records

BowWow · 31-08-2023 5:20am #1

This cemetery has over 1.5 million burials.

When last I looked on Find a Grave (a couple of months ago), their record numbers had yet to reach the 50,000 mark. Records with an actual Plot Reference was a much smaller number, understandable so as Glasnevin operate a fee paying site.

Tonight when looking up a record on FaG I noticed that their records now number over 615,000! and seemingly the new additions have the Plot Reference.

A massive twelve fold increase. From about a third of one percent of records to over 40 percent.

Great news - Just wondering where has the download come from?

Fraoch333 · 31-08-2023 7:24am

Thanks for letting us know. That's great news wherever the information came from.

I just had a look at Find a Grave and see a lot more relatives compared to before. I'll have to plan a trip to Glasnevin.

BowWow · 31-08-2023 8:41am

Uploaded to Find a Grave on Tuesday by a Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who has now uploaded 11.5 million records to FaG.

BowWow · 31-08-2023 2:15pm

Over 3,500 records added in the last 9 hours, from the same source. 570,000 approx in 2 days - in the 22 years prior to this, there were less than 50,000 additions.

No indication of how many more to come. This could be the biggest record set to hit Irish genealogy in a long time.

BowWow · 31-08-2023 2:42pm

I've asked the question and got a response that the record set will be about 800,000 individual records!

pinkypinky · 03-09-2023 8:12pm

For the second time this evening, I say "holy crap".

I wonder how Glasnevin feels about this. It could take away a lot of business.

pinkypinky · 03-09-2023 8:44pm

I'm not sure I want to go claiming my ancestors' graves but it's weird that this guy owns them.

BowWow · 03-09-2023 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065427#Comment_121065427

Agreed on Dublin Cemeteries reaction - they can't be happy. Unless, they are in some way facilitating it.

I've spent a lot there over recent years. Always get the full grave list, even though only one might be related. Have also paid for grave details that turned out to have nothing to do with me.

Records now just over the 675k mark.

pinkypinky · 03-09-2023 9:15pm

Yes, I've spent plenty of money there too and want to support their efforts.

The records seem to go up to 2016. I don't see any cremations.

BowWow · 03-09-2023 9:26pm

Over the weekend I've looked up a number of individuals, mostly late 19th. / early 20th. Century. With 650k odd records out of an amount of 1,500k odd I would have expected to find about half of what I was looking for.

Interestingly, I have found them all, except for 2 from the 1990's.

pinkypinky · 03-09-2023 9:42pm

Somebody on Twitter mentioned there's a restricted list in Familysearch (presumably offline) of Glasnevin records. Must be coming from there. Of course, the LDS Family History Centre is very close to Glasnevin.

pinkypinky · 05-09-2023 10:12pm

Just to add the person putting these records found my posts on Twitter and offered to hand over management of any family memorials. He's not precious.

705,929 memorials this evening.

Claire Santry's post from earlier today showed 689,832.

https://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2023/09/more-than-600000-records-for-glasnevin.html

euro_girl21 · 08-09-2023 8:35am

Thanks for this thread. I have a lot of relatives in Glasnevin and have found quite a few additional ones in the new findagrave records that I did not find in the Glasnevin Records particularly due to inconsistencies in how the Dublin Section and Garden Section are recorded in Glasnevin's records. When I queried "missing relatives" in the past with Glasnevin, they told me the Garden Section was split at some point and this has led to some inconsistencies in the plot section records. I also saw about the great new John Grenham maps and his site led me to the Dublin Historic maps site which has a great map of Glasnevin with plot sections, row number etc. This is better than most other maps I have found of the Cemetery. I cannot post links and I am only an amateur researching my own family tree so sorry if you all know this already :)

ath262 · 08-09-2023 10:59am

here's that Glasnevin map on the DublinHistoricMaps website

a site to bookmark if you have Dublin connections or interest, it has dozens of map layers

BowWow · 08-09-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084591#Comment_121084591

Great find euro_girl21 and ath262 - Thanks...

cobham · 08-09-2023 12:38pm

I was surprised to see Google Street maps do all the pathways of Glasnevin.

BowWow · 08-09-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083872#Comment_121083872

Thanks to this release of records (now at 728k) I have now found 23 relatives/plots to visit, photograph and record on the family tree.

Included in these are the 6 missing siblings of my Connolly Grandmother (RIP 1930). She was 1 of 12, 7 of whom died as infants. I previously had the graves of the 5 who survived to adulthood and 1 of the infants. I have now found the missing 6 - 5 in one grave and 1 in another. All were incorrectly named in Glasnevin records as Conlon. I have the copy Death Registrations and will be giving these to Glasnevin to enable them to correct their records. I'm assuming the first of the 6 to die was wrongly named Conlon, and subsequent entries just copied the surname.

Delighted with this find. When you look on FindaGrave now at the 12 children and their parents, it's like I've re-united the family...

dubred · 09-09-2023 12:44pm

Thanks for sharing, I found my 3rd great grandfather in the same plot as his wife, I now know when he died and a rough estimate of when he was born, this had been a challenge with a name like James Kelly!! There are 5 more seemingly unrelated people in the same plot in the Garden section.

More research to be done....

Fraoch333 · 10-09-2023 8:21am

This has been absolutely brilliant! I'm finding more and more relatives with the uploads. I hadn't noticed before the possibility of organising or searching by plot number - it's such a great way of linking family members.

Now here's hoping we'll get the same for Mount Jerome and other cemeteries!

Hermy · 10-09-2023 12:31pm

To get something similar for Mount Jerome would be fantastic!

ambros1a · 11-09-2023 12:29pm

While it is great to have these records, one of the problems of this mass uploading is that there are more and more duplicate records.

hblock21 · 13-09-2023 6:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121091626#Comment_121091626

How do you search by plot number?

Hermy · 13-09-2023 7:00am

On the search page click More search options for the drop down menu.

Then enter the plot number in the relevant box on the right.

The plot number is listed under the name of the deceased.

pinkypinky · 13-09-2023 4:34pm

thanks for that super tip, @Hermy

I just did a random search for a distant family member who died in 1960 and found his grave, and then used the plot number to find 2 more people in the grave.

Hermy · 14-09-2023 8:52am

The credit should go to @Fraoch333 - I hadn't thought of searching by plot number myself before they suggested it.

cobham · 14-09-2023 11:09am

I have looked up via Family search and it brought me to Findagrave site for a particular grave but I dont see the same display as you Hermy. I dont see the plot number link? Glasnevin will give info of all in a plot but at a price.

Hermy · 14-09-2023 11:35am

Not all entries at Find A Grave include a plot number.

Do you mean the plot number isn't included or is there no mention of plot number at all?

14-09-2023 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108469#Comment_121108469

It's possible that this was an earlier entry created by another user which doesn't include the plot information.

If you feel comfortable you can direct message me on here or on Find a Grave with a link to the memorial(s) and I will update them with the plot location.

My user ID on Find a Grave is 49949980 (woowoo)

cobham · 14-09-2023 12:15pm

I found another with a plot number and then was able to do advance search to get all others. But needed to put full info on plot and not leave out the St Bridget's bit!

BowWow · 14-09-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108721#Comment_121108721

Wow! Welcome to boards.ie woowoo, and thank you for posting these records.

Records now at 745k - will we see much more?

cobham · 14-09-2023 12:59pm

I think I have sorted all now thanks. Nearly a million, wow what an achievement! They must have had access to the full records of Glasnevin. But that means revenue stream for cemetery will be affected?

14-09-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108845#Comment_121108845

I have 3 spreadsheets remaining which should bring the total to about 755k. My "combined" spreadsheet has 815k listings but Find a Grave's duplicate checker isn't very good and detected many false positives. I will try add those in the future.

I find it interesting that the cemetery trust claims Glasnevin has 1.5 million burials but it seems they only have records for about 815,000. I spoke with a user on Find a Grave who said that some records they paid for on the old Glasnevin website no longer show up in a search on the new website.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108960#Comment_121108960

The records I've added don't contain all the information you can find when paying for a record on their website. It may have a small impact on their revenue and I imagine they will contact Find a Grave about the information I've added and attempt to have it taken down. In my opinion it's odd that a not-for-profit is charging 3 euros per basic record.

Glasnevin's data isn't very clean and it took about 1 week to clean up. Here are some terms I found in the last name field of some listings:

"Xiao Ma National Maternity", "Berkley Library Bones", "No Embryo", "Museum Specimens", "With 347", "Right Leg", "Historical"

Also many listings without a date would instead use 1-1-1970 (unix epoch) as a placeholder.

cobham · 14-09-2023 2:35pm

I thought the register books were a great resource, beautifully written out with extra details such as rank/occupation. I attended a lecture once by the late Shane MacThomas who said the records were complete even the newborns that would arrive on back of a bicycle. He brought one of the register books along to show us. They prided themselves down the years for burying the rich and the poor. Is it the transcription into digital that is at fault? Yes I did a lot of research and paid for full records c 2010 and could always revisit the scans of the registers but not since new website. There was some confusion over some grave that I had taken up incorrectly and said no gravestone only to find someone had put up a photo. When I took it up with cemetery staff they gave me credits for the money I had spent but would have to redo the research. I had kept a record of basic info but always interesting to revisit original source. Revenue for the cemetery is a problem now that cremation is popular and space running out. Hence they now have the museum/shop/cafe and parking charges. They got a nice amount from State around the time of the millenium and a lot of restoration work was carried out at that time

14-09-2023 4:10pm

Yes I believe the issue is with the transcription into digital. I imagine it's because many name fields on the physical register would have contained titles, prefixes, suffixes and sometimes other notes such as "Child of".

Have some of the records you paid for on the old site disappeared from the database search on the new site?

Hermy · 14-09-2023 5:22pm

In my opinion it's odd that a not-for-profit is charging 3 euros per basic record.

Why so?

cobham · 14-09-2023 5:59pm

I can get back to the original scan of register the same way with the new website but all my old 'saved' records are gone. I should have kept a copy on computer or printed off. Yes I think it is value for money and lovely to see the original book tho that is extra also for full list of other interments in same plot. It is such a massive site, it is hard to see how they can maintain it in the present day. I was told that they had hoped for better result from putting the records up online. They do cremations also so another income stream. Goldenbridge had been much neglected also but I think it is in better shape now? anyone know? is it 'open'? Ten years ago you had to make an appointment with a caretaker to open it up. He has since died and his house at the gate had a fire. Earlier generations of family are there but no gravestones.

pinkypinky · 14-09-2023 8:08pm

I know that records I bought with an old email address are inaccessible since the new website, but my current address carried over the records I had. I got them to send me a spreadsheet at the time - when Lynn was still working there.

Always do a pdf print of the full grave record and screenshot any of the images of the old books. You never know what will change!

BowWow · 12-10-2023 8:55am

This morning I heard from the individual who put the recent additional records up on FindaGrave to say, that following pressure from Dublin Cemeteries Trust, Ancestry.com will be taking those records down from their FindaGrave site.

pinkypinky · 12-10-2023 11:55am

Claire Santry has a post up about it now.

https://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2023/10/bad-news-700000-glasnevin-burials-on.html

I'm not a bit surprised.

Comsewogue · 12-10-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227122#Comment_121227122

I reached out to the uploader of the Glasnevin plots last week and was given ownership of a large amount of my family graves that were uploaded. I've since added a lot of extra information and images for these graves, some are still a work in progress. I've paid for the records of these previously from Glasnevin too. I'm curious (and worried) if these will be affected.

EDIT: I started checking - they've already been removed, along with all the content I added.

euro_girl21 · 12-10-2023 5:47pm

Likewise various plots I had added information to are gone. It is quite disappointing. Does anyone know what the origin of the uploaded records was? And does Dublin Cemetries Trust really earn that much from their own database to want the records removed? I found a lot of graves (sadly especially for infants and children) on findagrave which I did not find on the DCT site (which has a terrible search function).

DCT accounts are here on the charity regulator website but the income from the records is not clear:

Charity Detail | Charities Regulator

ath262 · 12-10-2023 7:07pm

As far as I know the Latter Day Saints filmed the registers around the 1970s, think copies of these films might be (or were) available in Dublin City Library, I suspect these FS films are where these transcripts or OCR records came from. There were probably some agreement on what could be done with the films at the time. You see restrictions on access to various record-sets on the FamilySearch website, probably as a result or similar agreements, some only available in FamilySearch centres.

Zoney · 12-10-2023 7:37pm

If you move fast, Google has indexed the non-English versions of these memorials, and there are cached versions available (you may need to switch to text to get the bios etc). I got hold of some of what I'd added in terms of bios (just missing the most recent). Beside the result you need to click ... / more to get the Cached link option.

Search Firstname Middlename Lastname findagrave to get the results.

pinkypinky · 13-10-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121229862#Comment_121229862

Having spoken to the individual, FamilySearch was not the origin of the data. I don't want to get anyone in trouble by detailing further.

ath262 · 13-10-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232384#Comment_121232384

Interesting - trying to think of possible alternate source for these other than screenscraping or similar automatic processes - will keep further thoughts on this to myself

Mick Tator · 15-10-2023 10:41pm

So they’re back in the news - again, and for the wrong reasons, - again. When their IT system was down for months and they were completely overdue in meeting their corporate governance obligations on annual return filing, ESG, etc., I pointed out the disgraceful situation.

Quote (<<Glasnevin Trust has a board of about a dozen people but only two female directors. Why? The annual report is very opaque on financials and shows little on corporate governance, not even how long the directors have served. Why? The available accounts are from 2018. Why? Where is the accountability? The directors probably are nice people but none should be allowed in office for more than 5 years and they should be paid for their work. It seems they are not at the moment for a ridiculous number of meetings.>> See https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116187877#Comment_116187877 )

A few months after that they got their act somewhat together, appointed some suitable directors and brought their regulatory filings up to date.

Latest report and accounts on file are for y/e 2021. They contain some appropriate (good) comment on governance and changes (positive) but a lot of waffle on the tough times and ‘challenges’ of Covid. (Emmm, if one is in the burial/cremation business is Covid not a bonus/business opportunity?) That year total Group income was €9,943,731 (2020: €8,771,842). Total Group expenditure was €8,274,592 (2020: €7,916,980) so consolidated net income for the year was €1,669,139 (2020: €854,862) and the total consolidated reserves were €21,207,401

What that basically means is that they’re very profitable and sitting on cash assets of €20+ million (considerably undervalued).

Following the fuss over FindAGrave there are three business questions

(i) The Trust’s customer base / population of the Greater Dublin is increasing dramatically. The number of people over 65 years of age will almost treble by 2030. Should that not be the core business, not hawking a dodgy database?

(ii) The income from the sale of records is not given but it must be tiny in the overall context. Having a website open via a sales portal hugely increases exposure/risk of a cyber attack. Do sales figures merit the ongoing cost of data protection/cyber security?

(iii) Is it a correct strategy for the Trust to concentrate on selling access to records in a cumbersome way when instead it could outsource the process (and profit-share) to a business partner that has a record of efficiency in the area?

pinkypinky · 16-10-2023 9:05am

All excellent questions, Mick.

I remember my grandmother telling me that the cost of a grave in Glasnevin was €16000 about 16 years ago, so clearly they're making plenty of money from their main business.

Discussing this on other forums, people think Glasnevin charges a fortune for what they provide. In the past, I've been very grateful to have their database even at a price.

There's been a noticeable downturn in outreach and accessibility since Lynn left the job. I emailed a query to her replacement and it took well over a week for a response to a simple query - he did give it.

Mick Tator · 16-10-2023 10:28pm

Interesting that Lynn moved, I didn’t know, I've seen a few of her pitches (e.g. at IGRS). It’s an interesting sign of events when people of her calibre depart.

Understanding the Trust’s burial options and pricing policy is similar to trying to figure out a suitable health insurance plan. A few years ago Alan Shatter TD tried to stop funeral ‘racketeering’ but got nowhere, they just wore him down.

Frankly, management of the Trust is part of a bigger and very nasty picture of that industry and the Trust seems quite happy to maintain the status quo and cream off its share of the profits. Genealogy and ‘Heritage’ are a sideshow, a nice distraction to take the focus off the main money-grab, which is inflated burial costs and ignoring cost-cutting measures. Even at a genealogy product level, why bother with 700k plus records when you can try to milk flogging just 70k? Only the OPW could comprehend that logic! (In fairness to some of the new appointees to the Trust, they must be uneasy - time will tell!)

BowWow · 17-10-2023 9:04am

Glasnevin has received significant public funding, particularly during the decade of commemoration. This was based on their oft quoted position as the "National Cemetery" and having over 1.5 million burials.

But what if they don't actually have that many burials? Maybe they only have 800k odd as indicated by Post 32 above. Would explain why they wouldn't want records in the public domain...

cobham · 17-10-2023 9:47am

I think the records for Glasnevin are right? The records seem so scrupulously kept way back then. The problem for them nowadays is the trend to cremation. The setting up of the museum/shop/cafe and charging for carparking within the precincts were other money stream initiatives. I was told that the return on the digital records was less than hoped. Yes they got a lot of 'millenium' or Lottery money at one stage... and my forebears gravestone was given some attention but I thought it was already in good order.

Oh I could not sit and enjoy a coffee sitting outside right up against the burial plots! Better to come through the gate from Botanic Gardens!

17-10-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121243728#Comment_121243728

I think the third point you made is exactly why Ancestry gave in to DCTrust's demands. I believe Ancestry wants to remain friendly with DCTrust so that in the future Ancestry will be considered if the cemetery decides to outsource. When I was in a zoom call with a representative from Ancestry they had said something like "The legal team doesn't think that this is a legal issue as the data you added is likely not protected by copyright"

Glasnevin Cemetery Records

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