Why your squat sucks

Cill94 · 06-09-2023 1:32pm #1

(The below was a recent article from my free newsletter that I thought some might find useful.)

A lot of people really struggle with getting the squat to progress, and there are some glaringly obvious reasons that I see.

Here are some of the most common ones.

https://mcusercontent.com/095c1022358e82c3c8c01fb05/images/25d3cf43-4e02-c9f9-e69d-6195632bb8c8.jpg

Your depth is shite

I train in a public gym a few times a month, and my very generous estimate is that less than 10% of people are squatting to full depth. If you’re not sure you’re going all the way, you’re more than likely one of the 90% lying to themselves.

Full range of motion means all the way, as in until your hamstrings are resting on your calves. The bad news? That means less weight and an ego check.

The good news is that you’ll be far stronger and more muscular in the long run. You’ll also feel far more confident with the squat movement as you are never at risk of going ‘too low’.

https://mcusercontent.com/095c1022358e82c3c8c01fb05/images/062e6ece-e31a-c356-0324-7867987b4c91.jpg

You’re afraid to push hard

I don’t recommend failing reps regularly. But if you’ve never failed a squat and you think you’re plateaued, there’s a decent chance you’re just not trying hard enough.

Taken truly close to failure, squats are probably the hardest exercise in the gym. And they only get tougher as you get stronger. Thus learning how to push through a hard rep becomes a real skill.

If you have no idea if you’re pushing hard enough, get yourself some spotters who know what they’re doing and try to do a proper 5 rep max.

https://mcusercontent.com/095c1022358e82c3c8c01fb05/images/75c7c86d-2cf7-5c3f-516e-a4257b5390bc.jpg

You’re too obsessed with your technique

Squats are probably one of the most simple exercises to execute well, so long as the loading is correct.

Once you have the basics down (bar on traps, back arched, sit low, keep feet on floor etc.) , it’s time to get strong.

However a new form of neuroticism around symmetry and muscle ‘dysfunction’ has arisen in recent times. I once allowed this BS to derail my training, telling myself that I needed to go light and ‘work on form’. I got nothing except weaker.

The only way you’re going to figure out the best form for you, is to get under heavy weight. Then technique flaws can begin to legitimately halt your progress and force you to find a better way. Any detailed technique analysis prior to that is a flawed assumption.

Check out my technique in the above photo. Notice how I hold the bar crooked and my feet are slightly uneven? Turns out I could still squat 200kg like that, and likely more. My point is, let stuff prove it’s a problem before you make it one.

https://mcusercontent.com/095c1022358e82c3c8c01fb05/images/81a445c0-ef13-131e-bea3-be815439fbd1.png

Your legs can handle more

Some people will say “all you have to do is squat”.

While this certainly works for a time, it leaves gains on the table long term.

You see, your legs and back still have plenty left in the tank after squats are done.

This is where accessories like split squats, back raises, lunges, good mornings, hack squats etc. can help lob some mass on and drive your squat up further.

https://mcusercontent.com/095c1022358e82c3c8c01fb05/images/d6c5ed07-4511-109f-b4cc-37d19faf3fea.png

The above was a client I worked with recently who struggled with squat depth.

Mellor · 11-09-2023 7:09am

Your depth is shite

Agreed. This is 100% the most common squat issue. Followed by people not doing the work to achieve the basic mobility needed.

You’re afraid to push hard

Yup. Once people get out of the newbie gains phase, the days of easily adding 2.5-5kg weekly are gone. while you can still add weight consistently, it's bloody hard. Over a 12 week phase for an intermediate lifter, I'd expect 4 weeks to be relatively easy in the bag top sets, 4 weeks to be tough close to max effort and 4 weeks to be at you limit, where you are as likely to fail as succeed.

If somebody has a run of months where they never doubt if they'll be able to their top set that day they probably aren't pushing hard enough.

You’re too obsessed with your technique

Agree again. A max effort/RPW 10 set should never look pretty.

Your legs can handle more

On the fence with this one. While I agree that yo get the most out of you legs, you need assistance. If somebody wants to be a competitive powerlifter, weightlifter, they'll need to do some form of assistance. But those are the top few percenters.

If somebody just wants to be pretty strong, they can get pretty strong without doing a ton of accessory work. Sure, they would be stronger if they find the time to do it. But if their squat is weak, I'd say it's far more likely to be because of the first 3 points than a lack of accessory work (and everything else perfect).

Cill94 · 11-09-2023 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095507#Comment_121095507

On the fence with this one. While I agree that yo get the most out of you legs, you need assistance. If somebody wants to be a competitive powerlifter, weightlifter, they'll need to do some form of assistance. But those are the top few percenters. If somebody just wants to be pretty strong, they can get pretty strong without doing a ton of accessory work. Sure, they would be stronger if they find the time to do it. But if their squat is weak, I'd say it's far more likely to be because of the first 3 points than a lack of accessory work (and everything else perfect).

Yeah I guess it just depends on what the squat goal is.

One of the key things I changed to go from 160-200kg was starting to include a lot more challenging squat assistance like heavy lunges and split squats, front squats etc. Granted the average gymgoer will never want to push their squat up this much. But it's worth noting for those who are intermediates.

Mellor · 11-09-2023 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095868#Comment_121095868

Absolutely. If somebody wants to get to double bodyweight, they’ll probably need assistance work.

But what I was getting at was, 99% of those that have crap squats it’s for one if the other reasons. Not a lack of assistance.

And of the people doing assistance work, at least half probably have crap squats from doing too much assistance and not enough heavy squats.

Cill94 · 11-09-2023 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096715#Comment_121096715

Yeah very fair

Black Sheep · 12-09-2023 10:40am

Agree with all of the above, but just to throw in-

It's covered by "You're afraid to push hard", but I really think that on linear progress type programs in particular (Starting Strength, 5x5 etc) people don't really recognise that the difficulty is all back-loaded to the end of the program. They might read it on paper, and see where their numbers are going, but it's like they don't quite then realise they've got to put in a lot of effort to keep moving.

The first few months, everyone loves a linear progress program, it's plain sailing. Improving their technique, leaving the gym feeling good, not too beaten up...

Then I think around the 100-110kg mark, to take a band that seems really common, it's as if more than half of people will plateau. Then reset, try again, fail again and a lot of people in my experience discover that they want "a change", or identify different goals, that usually don't feature the requirement to continually push squat progress.

The first two LPs I did, I got stuck a little further on, it was around 125kg, and it wasn't until the third go-around that I think I punched through and realised that it just has to be this hard, and it seems that every workout you knuckle through is just enough to cause some adaptation to occur to enable the next one, for at least a little longer.

We've discussed this before on here, but I do think that a lot of people who switch programming when it gets heavy are leaving quite achievable gains on the table that are still in 'hobbyist' territory, rather than amateur powerlifter territory.

If I could go back, though, I probably would be a little less tied to "the big 3", in hindsight I was a very hip and posterior chain dominant squatter, even as low-bar squatters go, and that coupled with deadlifting didn't really bring me where I wanted to go. I have completely flipped things these days, I'm SSB, high bar or even quad dominant trap bar deadlift all the way for compound squat variations. Honestly, I just prefer the aesthetic results.

Cill94 · 13-09-2023 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100395#Comment_121100395

Yes I think in general there is an assumption with the lay public that training becomes easier as you get stronger, when it's quite the opposite.

Once you start exiting that beginner stage, you'll probably have to become comfortable with regularly being at least 3 reps shy of failure to continue driving progress, and that's obviously not for everyone. As you mentioned, squats conveniently become 'less important' to most around that point. 😂

One thing I think worth adding is that those traditional LP programmes become unnecessarily hard once you reach that intermediate point. I think it's always better to just start waving volume and intensity as soon as it becomes a grind. Your progress will slow down, but that's going to happen anyway - and now you won't feel like death every session.

Cill94 · 13-09-2023 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100395#Comment_121100395

Yes I think in general there is an assumption with the lay public that training becomes easier as you get stronger, when it's quite the opposite.

Once you start exiting that beginner stage, you'll probably have to become comfortable with regularly being at least 3 reps shy of failure to continue driving progress, and that's obviously not for everyone. As you mentioned, squats conveniently become 'less important' to most around that point. 😂

One thing I think worth adding is that those traditional LP programmes become unnecessarily hard once you reach that intermediate point. I think it's always better to just start waving volume and intensity as soon as it becomes a grind. Your progress will slow down, but that's going to happen anyway - and now you won't feel like death every session.

ratracer · 13-09-2023 9:48am

Thanks for this thread folks!

The comments here fairly closely describe where I am at the moment.

10 days ago I twinged something in my back while squatting on a Smith machine ( I don’t usually use this as prefer free weights, but that was all that was available) Currently waiting to see physio to assess, but I think my form and depth are generally pretty good, and certainly aspects that I take note of and work to improve.

I’ve used StrongLifts 5x5 previously, am currently 5 months doing the MadCow program and beginning to get stuck now at Sq 97.5, D/L 105, Bench 70. My goal is really to strengthen and tone alongside cycling for cardio, as opposed to outright power/ bodybuilding,

Should I stick with MadCow or is there any other program/ trackable app that any of you would recommend?

I’m 46 and 92kg, 188cm.

Thanks.

Black Sheep · 13-09-2023 10:29am

I agree with Cilian that the transition from a linear progress style programs, the best place for a beginner to start, to slower-progression, more varied intermediate programming, is sometimes delayed too long... Although arguably it's also jumped into too soon, in as many cases.

On a linear progress, if your squat plateaus at - for the sake of argument - 125kg 3x5 and you fail 127.5kg 3x5 for two consecutive workouts, and try a reset (-10%, and work back up... Effectively giving yourself a deload) and that doesn't help, then at that point I would be "finishing" the linear progress by going down to 3s, and trying to continue to add weight. Or another option would just to work up to a top set of 5 and try to continue to add weight, and then go to a top set of 3 and be done. Either way, you could probably eke out the final weeks still adding weight in the 3-5 range, just not for 3 sets across.

After that I think yes, a really good option is to do stuff like heavy light medium (HLM) programming, which is not one program, it's an approach that can be set up various ways but involve varied volume and intensity.

I've not familiar with MadCow but just from glancing over it, it DOES seem to be based partly on HLM principles.

I did HLM programs for a long time after I stopped doing linear progress, and I made that stretch up to twice bodyweight handily enough. It felt more do-able than the end of the linear progress. By the time, at the end of a 12 week training cycle you were coming towards peaking, you would know from what you were doing for your high percentage work that you had already moved the dial on your 1RM. My experience was that my "test weeks" at the end of my HLM cycles were relatively stress-free because I knew I would have added at least something to my 1RMs, I never regressed unless injured.

The downside is they're very structured, formulaic and not that dissimilar to linear progress style training, with a continued focus on the big lifts.

After that, I did about 2 years solid of conjugate, and that was a breath of fresh air, and probably still the style of training I would recommend to people who are intermediates age 20-35 who are interested in top end strength, want variety and also want to get hypertrophied. There are elements of it I don't think I ever got right (Not sure I ever got that much out of dynamic days, which is like saying 30% of the program didn't work for me) but I did continue to get stronger until I eventually just felt like I couldn't sustain the four days of it, on top of other commitments.

The more I look at 531 and its various templates, I think that and some of the early Joe DeFranco programming (WS4SB) might be another good intermediate option for people who want more variety than something like HLM but don't want to get into conjugate, which probably does require quite a bit of willingness to experiment / learn.

Cill94 · 13-09-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104151#Comment_121104151

For the weights you're lifting, it's unlikely the programming is a major limiting factor. Madcow is 'good enough' for just about anyone lifting late beginner/early intermediate numbers like yourself.

Instead, I'd recommend you do a little deload/reset and try to improve nutrition and sleep. Basically drop the working weights back by 10-20% (whatever is needed to be lifting at an RPE 5-6). You then need to ensure adequate calorie and protein intake, sleeping more etc. This should allow you to get further than last time.

Obviously you need to carefully work back up after the back getting hurt.

joeyj69 · 13-09-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312548/why-your-squat-sucks

Another great reason that you missed out on mate is that a lot of people use cheap squat racks from Amazon. If your equipment is crap then your squat will be crap.

The second point is that your like me and sit about for 23 hours a day then when you squat you feel as if you are a wooden plank, try foam rolling before or after stretching.

Apart from that and what cill94 added, it just takes time to perfect, go light and work up.

Mellor · 14-09-2023 1:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104151#Comment_121104151

At ~bodyweightish squat. You are not at the point where you need to that looking at advance programs. Could just reload and reset.

At second or 3rd stall, around 120-150kg, you could look at madcow. FWI madcow is a good simple program imo

14-09-2023 8:34pm

I've just been "under the bar" the last 3 weeks or so. Paid for a PT who warned me i was going too kow on squats...

As i get stronger i think i will need more specialist coaching

Mellor · 14-09-2023 11:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111108#Comment_121111108

I some context they might be correct, but I assume in this case they are not. As a guess, I'd say you were going too low and that you only need to go to parallel and you were going lower. It's a common misconception, people conflate needing to go to parallel minimum with there being no benefit after that.

Parallel is a measure used in powerlifting for consistency, its not a magic limit.

Cill94 · 14-09-2023 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111108#Comment_121111108

Deep squats are better for general strength and muscle gain, and they improve flexibility. Many coaches out there believe the age old myth that it's bad for your knees or back to go too low.

Black Sheep · 15-09-2023 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111655#Comment_121111655

How deep is deep, breaking parallel or "rock bottom"?

Cill94 · 15-09-2023 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112020#Comment_121112020

Rock bottom aye. I don't see a reason to stop at parallel unless you're a powerlifter as Mellor mentioned. Aside from those benefits I listed, I find doing the full ROM builds huge confidence in the squat movement. You never have to hesitate about going too low when you always go as far as you can.

Black Sheep · 15-09-2023 10:25am

I don't feel that strongly about it, but whatever depth people pick, they need to achieve it consistently, even as they add load. In a sense I suppose I'm agreeing with Mellor that provided progress can be measured, and progress is occurring, depth is not the be all and end all (Not that that should be cart blanche for quarter squats, or at least know why you're doing them, if you're doing them).

I don't really know what is the accepted science on it these days, in terms of to what extent deeper is "better", but I'm very aware that I can achieve a "good tension" / maintain tightness under heavy load when I squat to 'just below parallel'... But when I go absolute rock bottom I feel as if there's a compensation or shift that start to happen, in a few spots.

I can get into that rock bottom position, I would consider myself to have OK mobility, but the limiting factors in being safe there, and getting out of it, feel like they start to be ankle and knee related. I've flirted with it, but I guess I've generally taken the view that if I'm doing a heavy compound squat then it's a chance to really challenge large muscles like the quads and hamstrings that I can't overload as easily with other movements. For ankle, knee and hip mobility I would tend to be thinking of looking to things like sets of goblet squats in my accessory work, where I might go have a pause or prying at the bottom.

Mellor · 17-09-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112642#Comment_121112642

But you do jiu jitsu. So your knees are probably fcked anyway. 😂

Cill94 · 17-09-2023 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112642#Comment_121112642

Yeah sure look I think it’s pretty clear that amazing gains can come from going to just below parallel. Tbh that’s about as low as I can go on a back squat anyway.

I just really like to feel strong in the full range of motion on all my exercises for GPP.

Black Sheep · 17-09-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121630#Comment_121121630

I just feel like if I stay in any position for a long time these days it's like I seize up into it. Oddly my mobility is still good, but it's like I am just achey.

Used to think it was my fault, maybe for "not doing something", diet or mobility wise ... now I am starting to wonder is this just being in your 40s, having trained good bit, and still being at it, several days a week.

Overall, no complaints though! I'm sure the alternative is either worse or just boring.

Why your squat sucks

Comments