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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Most people will realized no matter how much you want to transform the reliance on cars, our public transport infrastructure isn't quite up to it.

    I've done a fair bit of cycling commuting, and recognise we are not quite there yet in mindset. People haven't adjusted to the idea of getting out on a wet day, putting on the rain gear for a 30 min cycle vs on a bus or train for 60 mins, or driving for maybe longer. I've lapsed myself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Reducing cars in the centre is public transport infrastructure, as is providing more walking and cycling facilities. Infact its the most impactfull public transport infrastructure you can build on a per euro basis, cheap as chips and it results in a radical improvement in the efficiency of buses and the uptake of walking and cycling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've been multimodal for years.

    But I actually stopped using the train (gave up the annual pass) because it was dangerously overcrowded, and no room for my folding bike. Went back driving. I'm only back on the train now, because of remote working the trains are bearable and the driving in town is so much worse with all the changes. Hate the Bus. Haven't really been up to cycling the whole way since I stopped. And that is someone who is strong advocate for cycling and multimodal transport.

    Trying to get someone who hasn't been on a bike since they were a teen is going to require a seismic shift in cultural mindset. Same with getting out of a car into packed train thats standing only for an hour.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,415 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a friend who lives in ashtown was saying the overcrowding on the trains is back to being as bad as it ever was for her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,415 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    commuting for work, so rush hour i assume.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I think that annual readjustment in September, where people start having to leave earlier when the schools and colleges return, may be returning as a phenomenon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Midweek its back, to a lot standing. Mo/Fri still quieter.

    Still not as bad as pre Lockdown where people passing out and getting sick was a regular event. Counted 50 people crammed between the doors one day. No AC, No windows, smooth walls, no handles. New rolling stock is badly needed. Must get the finger out and get an eBike.

    Not sure why. I don't find the London Underground as bad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In addition I think remote workers are having their days in the office slowly increased.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    That does not really answer the question I was posing.

    I don't live in Dublin, let alone Leinster - but the mindset of our current Taoiseach is what I was interested in. Is there more local insight that would not reach beyond the Natiaonl papers, info one would clean for local news papers.

    Does the Taoiseach want things to stay the same in the suburbs he represents? The status quo. That is very much the conservative mindset, they do celebrate this aspect of their philosophy. If change is to occur it should not happen at the rapid pace of a melting glacier.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    AFAIK he's had almost no involvement on local (suburbs) issues in his own constituency. I think its too low on his priorities. I was surprised to him say anything on it. TBH I'd be cynical and suggest it might be sympathetic noises to future votes he might need from drivers and commuters.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,415 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    he did get involved in one sense over the issue of the location of the greenway - he sent his objection to the proposed route in on his official headed paper (acting as tanaiste and enterprise minister)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Not really, providing good infrastructure is all that's needed, culture comes after.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm seeing no real culture change. Car use is declining. But that not really due to change in culture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The initial graphs in the report show a decline in var use and increase in sustainable modes. What barometer for culture change are you using to reach your conclusion?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There was a study that showed that recent cycling and walking was mainly at the expense of public transport. The rate of increase in cycling has slowed.

    Car use though...."...According to the rush hour Canal Corden traffic counts, the number of cars entering Dublin City Centre has declined from 89,500 in 1997 to under 46,400 in 2019.."



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    You can't conclude that. It just gives numbers on number of vehicles. Unless you know how busy the buses are, it didn't suggest that public transport declined. My own experience would say that buses are very full



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It was the conclusion of the study, not mine.

    But who knows for sure.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,415 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    "Dublin Bus returned to pre-pandemic levels carrying 11.56m passengers in November 2022, a slight increase on the 11.54 figure for the same period in 2019. Dublin Bus carried a total of 121m passengers in 2022."

    "Luas carried 4.1m passengers in November, bringing it all the way back to the pre-Covid figure in November 2019."

    "Irish Rail passenger numbers have not yet returned to pre-Covid levels, but the gap between 2019 and 2022 figures narrowed every month in 2022. In November 2022, the company carried 3.4m passengers compared to 4.0m in November 2019, an 85% recovery."




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Maybe it was an old study.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I think the new intermediate units will be up and running by December, when the new timetable comes in. Hopefully there will be a capacity increase in services then.

    Mondays and Fridays still seem quieter than Tue, Wed and Thur.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    people doing hybrid working (2 or 3 days a week in the office) are inevitably working from home on Mondays and Fridays. I know my office is dead on those days, which is a further disincentive to go in.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    No South Africans?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Wasn't sure which thread to post this in but I guess this one suits it. I stumbled across this article and one quote jumped out at me:

    John Capp, the director of vehicle safety technology, strategy and regulation at General Motors, stressed that there is not enough data about pedestrian traffic deaths to understand the causes. He also acknowledged there are tradeoffs in design and said safety emphasis in the past has been on the people inside of vehicles.

    "Ultimately, there's less we can do when someone is hit outside a vehicle," he said. "That's why we're focused on pedestrian crash avoidance."

    Is he trying to say that we don't know the specific percentages caused by pedestrians suddenly running in front of a moving vehicle or is he just trying to make his business sound as if they give a toss about pedestrians while at the same time making their vehicles even bigger?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    He's saying he won't be tasked to address the problem until someone makes it his (or his company) problem.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    An SUV is a heavy vehicle. An EV is a heavy vehicle. An SUV EV is a very heavy vehicle, particularly if it has a long range.

    Now being hit by one of those while crossing the road will hurt, possibly fatally.

    That is why we need better segregation of motor vehicles and active travellers - cyclists and pedestrians. Plus of course, better enforcement of the current regulations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    An American article about American regulations from a carmaker that no longer has any significant operations outside of the USA. In Europe, pedestrian impact regulations are far stricter, and there is extensive research on the subject, some of which he could look at, given that his company paid for it while it still owned Opel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I dunno. I think we are moving closer to US vehicle designs than away from it. Visibility out of our cars is probably worse than those in the US.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Pedestrian impact testing is a significant part of European vehicle-safety tests; it is not in the USA.

    Visibility requirements are the same between the US standards (FMVSS) and the rest-of-world standards (UNECE). The only real differences are in lighting (where the US has almost wilfully codified a system that's incompatible with the rest of the world), and structural rigidity of certain parts of the bodywork.

    If your concern is about vehicle weight, then there are moves afoot to address this. France has just introduced a weight tax on large vehicles (€10 per kg on weight above 1800 kg), and other member-states are watching to see how it goes. There's concern that the switch to EVs has allowed car-makers to abandon small cars in favour of heavier, more expensive (but more profitable) large vehicles. Large vehicles might make more money for car-makers, but they put additional stress on road and parking infrastructure, consume more energy, and are more dangerous to other road users.

    I can see a weight-based tax replacing both VRT and the annual motor tax here: weight is actually a very good proxy for energy/fuel use and unlike exhaust emissions, it's really difficult to cheat a weight-test, and the homologation test for weight is so simple that it can be taken out of the hands of the manufacturers' pet laboratories (CO2 testing is done by specialist testing labs, many of which rely almost entirely on car-makers for their business).



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