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Is my builder responsible?

  • 15-09-2023 9:23pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭


    Hi All,

    Got the worse news today that after trying to turn on our heating in our NEW extension, there is a leak somewhere more than likely under our new floors.

    there were two plumbers involved in the extension. 1 of them fit in my new boiler and repiped all downstairs and EVERYTHING worked, UNTIL the extension started.. after the extension was build there is more than likely an uncapped pipe somewhere under the floors.

    both plumbers who were involved in the extension are blaming each other. The builder is trying to distance himself from this now blaming one of the plumbers.

    Now one of the plumbers is someone we trust and is willing to meet with me and builder and plumber to discuss what was done and possible solution, but the other 2 wont.

    what are my options here? Is this the builder’s responsibility? As it was working before exentsion started and now not. Isent the builder the project manager and in charge of checking all this ?

    Now unfortunately there was no contract and builder insisted I paid in cash. I have lot of proof via wastapp of the all the back an forward of ongoing works and what I owe him etc

    Will the courts entertain me based on that ?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    who paid the plumber.

    who told the plumber what to do

    why 2 plumbers

    was there a plan or layout of existing pipes

    sounds like you did the first re plub yourself and then got a builder to do the extention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    You need to find where the leak is first and that should be definitive of who is responsible.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher


    who paid the plumber. 

    The builder paid both plumbers for there work on the extension.

    who told the plumber what to do

    Id imagine the builder certainly not me.

    why 2 plumbers

    long story, shortly before extension was built I got my family plumber in to fit a new boiler and repipe downstairs. In which he did and it worked. Then the extension started, he worked 1 day only on the extension part, went on two weeks holidays, so the builder got in his own plumber who finished the job by installing a rad and removing a rad, connected mains to sink. (We suspect he didn’t blank off the pipes on old rads he moved also)

    was there a plan or layout of existing pipes

    no plans.


    Note:

    My family plumber has giving me alot of time trying to figure out this issue and has stated to arrange a meeting with builder and builder’s plumber to gather information, but the builder has told me this is between the two plumbers not him.

    kinda shows my plumber is genuine and not shying away whereas they are.

    any way I think someone screwed up in the plumbing in the extension and my question is is the builder responsible to make sure plumbing is working after extension is built ? No matter which plumber is to blame it was builders extension project



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher


    Yes unfortunately we will need to dig up my new floors and pull out new kitchen to check pipes..

    if we find the leak in the extension part can I bill my builders insurance company? And what is the process there ?


    thank you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Sounds a bit extreme to locate a leak but if that's the advice you got and you're happy with it drive on.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Speaking from experience unless the builder is willing to resolve you have very little recourse without going legal. No contract and a builder asking for cash is a big red flag.

    I would be sticking with your trusted plumber to find a solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher


    Well theres a pipe under the kitchen floors.. and behind the kitchen. Is there other way to locate leaks without digging up the floor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,074 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    You've the best ace in you hand in that you already have a plumber who is working on your behalf to troubleshoot this one. The builder is deflecting the issue, he appointed the second plumber, so that's his skin in the game whether he likes it or not.

    In terms of fault-finding, there are professional leak finders who could narrow down the leakage area using a tracer gas to a couple of feet, so keep this in mind before you decide on a path which could cause additional damage - for which nobody wants to pay for - to your new kitchen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher


    Hi 10-10-20

    I didn’t know about these leak finding crowds thanks for information yes it would be brilliant to find the leaks without playing guess work tearing up the floors. Thats if there services are accurate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    its a messy situation. . you can use a thernal imaging camera to show leaks as well. not super accurate but will show areas that are hotter or colder than the rest

    i dont see any reason why the builder wouldnt be responsible . he can chase the plumber seperatly but thats not your problem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 884 ✭✭✭JamBur


    Is it a catastrophic leak with no pressure building at all? Or is it a gradual loss of pressure?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    can I bill my builders insurance company?

    Having paid cash and having no contract, are you sure he even has insurance?

    Whatever you do, don't let the builder wash his hands of it and leave it to the plumbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher



    No visible signs of leaks.

    we turned water on

    No air coming out of the radiators 

    Can hear the water going in but rads not coming on! theres a big space under the floor so definitely a disconnect pipe they never capped or something



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    And the pressure in the heating system is dropping to zero?

    ie you have to keep adding more water into it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,074 ✭✭✭10-10-20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher


    I stupidly didn’t check. He does have subcontractors working for him and he has his business posted on instagram so id assume he would.

    The builder said it plumbers fault and he cant do anything about it. So now id like to know the best procedure to go legal about this to claim off his insurance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭C3PO


    Was the system not tested on completion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭CandyButcher


    No! The builder in these words told me to get onto the plumber who installed the boiler system that he was responsible for the boiler not working.

    but the system was working prior to extension starting.

    now the messy part is my builder used my plumber and his plumber in the extension and told me he has nothing to do with it its the plumber fault.

    so no it was not tested after extension finished. We’re pretty sure his plumber forgot to cap some pipes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Can you not cap the pipe where it leaves the boiler or somewhere else you can access the pipes easily instead of digging up the floor? If you can stop water entering the pipe it'd be quicker and easier than trying to find where its leaking.

    When I say you I mean your plumber.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Get a quote for the tracer gas leak detection and do that as a first step.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭Squatman


    you will need to dig nothing out to locate the leak. sounding technology or possible thermal scanning can be used to identify leak location without any invasive surgery



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