Probation extended for a further 3 months

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 1:28pm #1

Hi all, I got blindsided there on Friday when my 6 month probation was extended by 3 months.

I'm a recent graduate, the role was originally listed for someone with experience but they felt I was a good fit and they were willing to take me on as a graduate (outside of their actual grad programme). So I spent 2 months in operations and then into the day-to-day.

Up until Friday I would have thought thinks were going really well, my boss still insisted they were but ultimately my probation has been extended.

As it was put to me - The job was originally listed for someone with experience, and even though I'm seemingly progressing well, there's a timeframe put in place by senior management and that's where the issue lies (other than with me). I'm getting trained up to essentially take over from my boss, and he's going to head up this new project, but he hasn't been able to do that because it's taking longer to train me than they anticipated.

He really wanted to emphasise how happy he was with me, how we get along really well, he's very impressed with my progress to date, 'please don't go looking for another job, don't take this as a bad thing' but it's been extended by a further 3 months because even though he said he's faith in me and feels I'll have no issue getting to the level they require - if I don't in 3 months then it becomes a serious issue for him, his boss and the business as a whole.

Honestly I feel like I'm capable but that it's also a lot to ask.. I present to C Suite, there are a few thousand people in the business. Every meeting I'm in I'm the youngest, and the least qualified to be there, it's me, my boss and then directors and C suite, I'm 6 months in the door, 4 months in the actual role after the operations training.

I quite like what I do, I decided to forgo the US grad visa because I didn't want to give up the job and now it's looking like I'm at risk of losing it. I was even saying to my parents how I'd feel awful for leaving right after the training period.. I was actually told it'd take well over a year to be able to work entirely independently, now that timeframe seems to have slid up.

I trust my boss, I genuinely do believe him and what he said - but I know he doesn't have the power to overrule his boss. Thankfully, it's down to the speed at which I'm completing work, rather than me as a person - so at least I can actually improve upon it.

So should I start looking elsewhere? Even if I do start looking, I'm still going to knuckle down in the meantime.

callaway92 · 01-07-2023 1:30pm

Who cares? It means nothing anyway within your first 12 months. Even if your probation is finished after the 9 months they can still let you go without reason after 11 months for example.

Just keep plugging away.

bbbbb · 01-07-2023 1:37pm

hmmm, hard to know what to make of this.

Despite what your boss is saying, its hard not to see this as a bad thing.

Perhaps your boss is not being fully honest; Some managers are not good at giving “hard” messages, and want to avoid anything that might upset or cause confrontation.

Have you gotten feedback, even informal, from your boss-boss or other senior people?

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791544#Comment_120791544

My thoughts exactly.

I feel he is though, he made no qualms about saying I'm not up to speed and that's the issue. I also asked him straight out what should I be focusing on for the coming 3 months.

But no I haven't, I only really work directly with my boss, he has his counterparts and there are others who I work alongside but not directly with (if that makes sense), so basically other than my boss and his boss no one is really going to know how I'm doing. I'll be covering for my boss in a few weeks time so that'll be the real test

knucklehead6 · 01-07-2023 2:26pm

I wouldn’t be hugely concerned about it. I remember having my probation extended by 3 months back when I was starting out. I stayed in that role (but not at the junior level I was at when the probation was extended) for a further 5 years. Then I moved into a different role and have continued to work my way up. I’m 27 years with the same company at this stage. The extension is a dim and distant memory now and I’d say I’m the only one who remembers it

bbbbb · 01-07-2023 2:27pm

On the otherhand Its possible that the boss feels (with good reason) that you can get to the level needed, that you’re more likely to get there with encouragement rather than with criticism, but that they are still trying to convince the senior management (so let them fight that fight)

Either way, just knuckle down and plug away as you say.

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791712#Comment_120791712

That's my gut feeling too.

I'll put my hand up and say that I've taken my foot off the pedal at times, but in my defence I never knew it was an issue of time, I presumed I had plenty of time to complete these specific reports because that's what was given to me, but I didn't know I'd also be getting trained up in x,y and z down the line so where as I thought I was covering all the tasks with time to spare, I simply wasn't and didn't have the time I thought I did.

It'll be a lot of extra work, I shouldn't have any issue getting the reports done quicker as I'm definitely getting that bit quicker at them but with the mentioned additional workload I'm hopeful but not as confident.

bucketybuck · 01-07-2023 2:50pm

As senior management I can tell you that the most common reason for extending probation is because nobody took the time to make a decision and it is easier to kick the can down the road for another few months than it is to stop and look at the position now.

If you were shite they would be making you a priority, if you were world class they would be locking it down, but you probably just fall into that area where you are doing perfectly fine and they aren't giving you all that much thought right now.

That doesn't mean you don't speak to your boss and get the full story, but if he says its no big deal then I would probably believe him. And as others have said, probation means **** all anyway, they can let you go at any time regardless of probation or not.

bucketybuck · 01-07-2023 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791772#Comment_120791772

Thats sounds about right, they think you are showing well but there are a few things like late reports that they picked up on. So they just kick the can down the road a bit and see where you are at in a few months.

Oscar_Madison · 01-07-2023 2:58pm

You need specific feedback- what went well? What needs improving? I’d keep going but no harm having a “plan b” - I’d be looking for at least monthly meetings now to discuss progress- if these don’t go well then you know there’s likely writing on the wall for you

Jim2007 · 01-07-2023 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791526#Comment_120791526

But that is the point though, it does not make any difference to them in terms of having to let them go later, so why do it? After all this is someone who they are expecting to put in a management position in a the next few months, so why treat them in this manner... It's very hard to say if it is worth putting any more time in this..

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791797#Comment_120791797

There's a big focus on in the department for training and development, and they're tracking everything.

My boss showed me the spreadsheet of the tasks I'm doing, tasks I will be doing and how I'm preforming at them so far - so it's definitely been considered and not just kicked down the road, whether that's a good thing or not I can't say.

He's very good in fairness, and really wanted to hammer home the 'this really isn't a big deal, don't look at it as a bad thing' speech too which has somewhat put me at ease.

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791833#Comment_120791833

I know exactly what's going well and what needs improving, simply put everything is great/as he'd want it with sole exception of a report which is quite lengthy, but has been taking me far longer than it should. And it's weekly so I can see from their side the headache of it all.

Monthly meetings really isn't a bad idea actually I'll mention it to him!

lawrencesummers · 01-07-2023 3:56pm

Your probation is up and they have 3 choices

Get rid of.

Make permanent.

Extend Promotion.

They could have made a better choice for you but they could have made a worse one. Many places will extend probation for everyone for a variety of reasons, a pay raise might be due otherwise, or just because they want to try and squeeze a bit more.

its still in your hands, when the next 3 months is up then have the CV ready to go just in case

backwards_man · 01-07-2023 4:15pm

A few things seem odd here. You are essentially a graduate and you have been hired as a replacement for your boss who is presumably very experienced. He is moving up and they expect you to take on all his current tasks including presenting to CSuite which means this is not a junior position but is a position of some responsibility. Will you also be a people manager in this role when he moves on or will there be no direct reports to you? Its a a medium sized org with a few thousand employees so not a mum and pop type company. If I were your current boss's boss, I would have baulked at him hiring a graduate into this position and would be looking for certainty that this grad can perform well. I expect the pressur is coming from above as csuite do not want some rookie fumbling over presentations and unable to answer tough questions about whatever it is that you are presenting on. You future there would seem to depend on your boss convincing them that you are ready so there is alot of pressure on you. If it were me, I would knuckle down and ramp up, but alongside that I would be back interviewing, so that in 3 months time if you get shown the door you have something else lined up.

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792170#Comment_120792170

I've a feeling I won't be working entirely autonomously any time soon, but I'm expected to be more autonomous and overall useful than I currently am.

It's hard to explain without going into boring industry particulars, basically he's set up this current system and they want him to bring another region up to the same level so he needs me to be able to fill his shoes, but he'll still be around and able to assist when needs be.

I won't be a people manager, it's just the two of us in this function, but 40% of the business goes through our function. Objectively I 100% agree with the director, he's worried an inexperienced grad will make a tit of things and that won't reflect well on him. Honestly it's a bit mad that I'm in this position, the pay doesn't reflect the responsibility or workload but the exposure to C suite is great and the job itself is really interesting.

I think this is the wake up call I needed. Given the opportunity, I'd rather stay but I posted here because I quite frankly wasn't too sure if this was the writing on the wall and I just wasn't seeing it.

I'm hoping it's not, it doesn't seem to be but I'll prepare for both eventualities and pull the finger out in the mean time.

lawrencesummers · 01-07-2023 5:35pm

”The pay doesnt reflect the responsibility”

No offence and best of luck, but they are trying to replace your boss on the cheap and its only a temporay measure because once be has another region up to speed where does he go then?

What industry is it in?

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792498#Comment_120792498

It does seem that way alright. I'm hoping if nothing else it'll kickstart my career a lil'.

Well when he has the other region up and running it'll be a case of keeping them going, basically a duplication of the responsibilities I'm currently doing.. So either that'll be done by the both of us or they'll hire someone like they did with me and he'll move onto yet another project.

It's in foods.

lawrencesummers · 01-07-2023 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792561#Comment_120792561

Its all experience

gameoverdude · 01-07-2023 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792498#Comment_120792498

They should suck up everything, add it to their cv and then leave.

Flinty997 · 01-07-2023 6:57pm

Sounds to me that the OP is a placeholder until they find someone who fits the profile/image they want in the role. They tried the OP to see if they can live with a younger less experienced person, and I would say extending the probation means they can't. But they haven't found anyone else either.

Personally I wouldn't give up a "US grad visa" for this.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've seen too many people sit in "acting" roles then be passed over with a new hire into the role that they are expected to support/train.

Strumms · 01-07-2023 7:05pm

id say the manglement are unsure if they have long term justification for the permanent position.

but it’s easier to BS you and ‘extend probation’…

Any manager or team of managers after having an employee on their staff for 6 months should know if that person is a suitable candidate…

ifeelabreeze · 01-07-2023 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792930#Comment_120792930

There's 100% long term justification for a permanent position, my boss was run off his feet before I started, there's a lot to the job, admitted a lot of it is busy work (working out scenarios for upper management, explaining site level variances which could/should be done by production, changing and re-changing recipes etc.) we're constantly busy and there's more work yet to be added to both of our plates.

spaceHopper · 03-07-2023 10:05am

Start looking today. There is a chance that in 3 months your Boss will be saying that they are sorry but upper management have made the decision and there is nothing they can do. If you boss asks be honest and say that in 3 months you could be out of job. With Christmas around the corner and nobody will be recruiting, you have to protect yourself. I'd even ask them have they started looking for somebody else.

You were taken on as a grad when they were looking for a more senior person. I would argue that they should have redefined the role and their expectations and that you have exceeded them, you should be made permanent. It is not your fault or problem that the company wasn't able to attract an experience candidate. If they want you to stay then need to change this.

kennethsmyth · 03-07-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058303217/probation-extended-for-a-further-3-months

Just wondering if anyone has mentioned the legislation that was brought in in December 2022. Probation now can only be set for 6 months and if it is to be extended it can only be in exceptional circumstances and only in the interests of the employee.

Essentially to extend by 3 months the employer had to be willing to let the employee go and that the extension is to allow the employee to do better (as in keeping the job would be in their interest). However the employer would need to be saying to employee that either they go now or that the employer was willing to give another 3 months to help. Not sure this is the case here.

Flinty997 · 03-07-2023 1:37pm

Wasn't aware of it. Does it help. No idea.

spaceHopper · 03-07-2023 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799487#Comment_120799487

I don't think it helps the OP

https://www.rdj.ie/insights/transparent-and-predictable-working-conditions-regulations-2022-key-changes-to-probationary-periods

backwards_man · 03-07-2023 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793054#Comment_120793054

But you have no insight or experience to bring to these decisions. How are you supposed to present ideas to upper management when this is basically your first job? Unless you are just a placeholder for your current bosses' decisions that he doesn't have time to present himself. It sounds strange that graduate can do this.

Tork · 03-07-2023 8:52pm

If I was in your shoes, I'd be dusting down my CV. The impression I get from this is that they're keeping their options open and you're grand...for now. But should somebody more senior come onto their horizon, you'll be gone. How much of a say does your manager really have in the hiring and firing in your organisation? It reminds me of something that happened to me early in my career: I had a manager I got on well with and had a good working relationship with. When he was moving to another department, he asked me if I would come with him. All was well until he got over-ruled and that was the end of that.

I'm aware of two cases where people's probation was extended and both times, it was a prelude to them being let go. One happened in my workplace and it was done to buy more time for us, not the person who was about to be P45'd

tinytobe · 07-07-2023 10:49pm

In various customer service roles of US American IT companies in Dublin, that 3 months extension after a 6 month probationary period is just a farce. Often they want to get rid of you for whatever reason, mostly it's the employers fault, not yours. You've made it 6 months without any major issues, and if something came up they could have fired you during these 6 months.

My experience: Use these 3 months to look for another job if you feel this 3 months extension of a probationary period isn't justified.

never_mind · 14-07-2023 9:54am

I'm not sure I would want to work in a company that treated its staff like this. I know you might be young, but what if you were applying for a mortgage and needed the permanent contract? I would keep the head down and keep working away, but as others have said, it might be worth applying to other roles. Psychologically, it can have benefits and you can always go to your manager if you receive a better opportunity which might force them to offer you more money and permanency. I've been in places like this before and I should have moved on then and there. Nothing to do with you, OP, more to do with their lack of humanity (a bit dramatic, I know!).

Stranger Things · 18-07-2023 11:44am

Keep plugging away and improving during the 3 months.

Get your CV out there and start applying with your added experience included. Maybe let it be low-key known you are looking for another job to force your employers hand.

tinytobe · 20-07-2023 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849706#Comment_120849706

The problem is that it's not always anybody's choice to work for any specific company. It's like everywhere, sending out many applications in hopes it would come to an employment.

If it's not your fault, then rather use the time frame of 3 months to look for a new job, than focusing on the existing one.

Squatman · 28-07-2023 8:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058303217/probation-extended-for-a-further-3-months

I haven't read the other posts, just my two cents worth, is that they are now not legally entitled to extend your probation beyond 6 months, unless it is in favour of the employee. so, if you lost significant time of this 6 months due to holidays or sick leave, and as a result were unable to demonstrate your capability due to this time constraint, then the company can extend the probation. otherwise, they can not.

MrMusician18 · 28-07-2023 9:12am

Extension of probation is a major red flag. They they do not see you as a good fit but do not have anyone ready to replace you.

Look for another job. Actions speak louder than words, don't buy the bs sweet talk of being happy and want you to continue. It's a **** sandwich and that's just the method they use to deliver the message. An extension is not a vote of confidence. In fact, I'd likely walk now even without something lined up (thought I know that's a luxury I am in a fortunate position to afford). And when it would come to the leaving conversation I would tell them that you felt it the extension was unwarranted.

Go take up the grad visa, have good experiences elsewhere and forget about this lot. You're young, fuk em.

tinytobe · 31-07-2023 5:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906828#Comment_120906828

That's exactly it. Happened to me once. My reaction back then is that I was rather undiplomatic and basically stated, I wasn't willing to play their game and knew that I would never pass. At the same time the company wanted to relocate my job as well as others to another country, also reducing pay as the cost of living was lower in that country.

Beefcake82 · 04-08-2023 5:35am

It sounds to me they want to hire someone with same experience as your current boss but at your pay and you are a good filler for the time being. Also in your review there didn't seem to be any negatives yet the boss expressed confidence in you, yet probation period was extended.

This does not scream confidence to me, rather they are desperate for you not to leave, yet underpaying you and will replace if you if they could, however someone with more experience know they would be undervalued and underpaid.

I would brush up the cv now, start applying for new jobs and get out asap.

Squatman · 08-08-2023 12:58pm

how are you getting on since OP?

carfinder · 17-09-2023 7:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952541#Comment_120952541

According to another thread the OP now hates his job and expects to get let go soon (presumably not getting through probation). On a positive note he is thinking of going in to retail but separately also thinking of setting up his own business in the motor industry. His real passion is music and we're all waiting to hear how the row with his housemates gets resolved

ifeelabreeze · 17-09-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120990#Comment_121120990

You've too much time on your hands or a lack of interesting hobbies, maybe both.

Still love playing music, just under no notions of doing it for a living.

So as it currently stands I'm still in the same job, but it's draining on me, workload has only increased and there's still the probation looming over me, which frankly feels like a tactic to not pay me more - if I'm worried about my future in the role, how could I go asking for more?

Still would love to do something on the side relating to cars - valeting seems to be top of the pops, also looking at upholstery repair.

Housemate issue boiled over but I started to feel bad and so I decided to just go ahead with the original plan of moving out - after discussing it with them.

Coincidentally I've since got a better job offer that pays significantly better and is in a better industry, so I'd have been moving out anyway if I was to get this role.

People can be multifaceted, they can also post online on a whim - there's no criteria for posting here, I haven't got to show a serious dedication or passion, no track record needed - I can just post on a whim about a notion I had, some people are helpful and I've gained some great insights. Other people seem to think that these online postings are an insight into my life.

I love playing guitar, would have loved to go to America on a grad visa - why not take a shot at playing music over there? So I posted about that.

Had a spat with my housemates wanted some outsiders input, from those who don't know me and so they wouldn't be biased - so I posted about that.

Have since started thinking of 'side hustles' but I hate that word.. so business ideas in the car space - simply because I know and like cars, I also posted about that!

Not all of us are politically homeless carfinders.

ifeelabreeze · 17-09-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952541#Comment_120952541

Still pottering away at the job, new graduates have started over the past few weeks but none in our department, so I think even they've realised if they're replacing me they can't make the same mistake twice.

I've received an offer for a similar role in the pharma sector, so it pays considerably more and I'll be leaving as soon as the contract is signed!

Feel bad that I'll be leaving my boss who has been great, but don't mind leaving her boss and the likes who've put the pressure on me.

carfinder · 17-09-2023 1:34pm

It's great that you found a new job bit the way you've worded it makes it sound like it's not certain. You said "...if I was to get this role" in response to me and "...I'll be leaving as soon as the contract is signed!" in response to Squatman. You seem to have a lot of things troubling you, I hope a change of job suits you and you find a happy equilibrium in your life

ifeelabreeze · 17-09-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121122115#Comment_121122115

Thank you, I'm honestly quite content, I really can't complain.

I'm well aware that nothing is guaranteed until I've actually started the job, but I've no reason to suspect they'd pull the offer. I haven't given in my notice yet but I'm just waiting to sign the contract before doing so. All the details haven been ironed out, salary agreed, increase in 6 months is also agreed so things are good.

I've just also always wanted to start a business, always had that itch so I'm constantly looking for ways to go at that. That's my only gripe.

Squatman · 18-09-2023 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121918#Comment_121121918

thanks for the update. has the feedback from your manager improved in the last two months? one thing I detest about your situation is that it seems you *may have been operating at a level below what was expected, but your manager never took it upon themselves to actually provide this feedback in a timely manner, certainly to the extent that you could do something about it. Now that you have your probation extended, I would have expected weekly progress updates from your manager, detailing where they have observed improvements or concerns.

as an aside. now that you have one foot out the door, you should turn the screw on them, tell them that you want a performance review completed this week, and that you were advised that the 6 month extension may not have been legally enforced. there's no win in it for you (the feedback will be valuable, the legal side would just be to see them squirm)

Probation extended for a further 3 months

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