Bedroom window fire safety!

Was the window previously inward opening tilt & turn with full escape access, such as this:

Do you know what the justification was for the change, were there security issues with the original windows given that the side passage appears to be public-access?

Restrictors are not allowed on escape windows unless based on a risk assessment on the liklihood of the occupant being more likely to come to harm or self harm as opposed to the risk from fire. Generally only acceptable in cases concerning mental health care facilities.

As someone else said, it potentially is not required for means of escape purposes.

If you are worried about fire, make sure your smoke detectors are always working and always close all doors onto the corridor at night. Early warning and protection of your escape routes are your best chance of survival.

That says in certain circumstances and that restrictors released by keys or tools should not be used on escape windows.

This is a ground floor window.

RE the ventilation point raised OP you will need to measure the vent to see if it complies, if not then you have a point to argue with the mgmt company.

As stated above your primary escape from the room is into the hallway (protected corridor) and out via the hall door.

Re the restrictor... that window appears less than 1400mm from the ground so I don't think it would be required but it would have to be measured.

If you are very concerned you could mount a glass hammer behind the curtain somewhere if it would provide you with more comfort. But I get that you are not really looking for a work around.

Personally I too would want an openable window

This may be pertinent information, let's see what the others say here.

This is exactly what I was ready to reply with. TGD Part B Vol2 S.1.3.7 deals with dwelling houses and not apartments.

You should be looking for the Fire Cert Application and granted conditions and thats where you argument should be based around. If it does not comply with that then they have a case to answer. IMO.

Good design and regs do not necessarily always go hand in hand.

I think you are being a bit alarmist here.

You are in a ground floor apartment so thank all your lucky stars for that for a start. Be more concerned about your poor neighbors upstairs and how they might escape if there is a fire in your apartment. I would bet that the passive fire stopping in your building is either non-existent or incorrectly/inadequately installed.

How exactly would there be a fire outside your daughters bedroom door? Do you keep a lot of combustible materials and sources of ignition here? If so, stop doing this. I do notice a clothes rack in the photo in the hall, you are obstructing the means of escape from the bedrooms with this and adding a combustible fire load to the means of escape.

As per my previous comment, make sure your fire alarm system is maintained, batteries replaced, maintenance company doing their regular checks or whatever the requirements for the system installed in your apartment are. Keep your doors closed at night to help contain a fire and allow you and your family the time to escape. Keep your hallway free from unnecessary fire load. Bedroom windows are a last resort and not a primary means of escape. You mentioned that it opened in anyway so it was probably not suitable for climbing out anyway.

Without reading the fire strategy for your building nobody can comment definitively on what the requirements for your bedroom window are. As someone mentioned, there is good cause for it to be fire rated and unopenable and the vent closed up or have a fire damper installed.

The fire safety standards for residential buildings (not just in Ireland) is shocking so, as I said, thank your lucky stars you live on the ground floor and take responsibility for the fire safety of your own family (as mentioned above) and stop looking for a bogey man trying to trap your poor daughter in her burning bedroom.

Lets hope you never have a child in a room on a ground floor with no means of escape because they don't have the know how to break through a double glazed window to escape.

That is likely why it had to be changed, as if there was a fire in the unit and the window was open it would impact the escape route. You keep referencing the management company. Are you a tenant or an owner?

You also asked every bedroom must have a window, the answer is no they do not. In general it's best practise. But in situations where its not required you need to look at the overall risks. An opening window here adds at least two risks;

• The risk of fire spread to the escape route. There is an argument that the glass should be fire rated.
• Risk of a child falling out of the window. Based on the photos, an opening window here is a very big risk that a child would fall out child would fall out. The fall is only ~1m, but it still needs to be considered as part of the risk.

Most likely the management company is correct and it is currently compliant with fire. However, that doesn't mean you can't beyond the minimum requirements. There may be a bigger concern that purge ventilation is missing. I'd lean on that aspect, and acknowledge and accept the risks above.

"Drama"? Well it's quite obvious if there was a fire in the hall outside that room in that apartment it would require smashing the window which is a fact.

That is why the OP started this thread because the window was changed. "Long story short the window used to open inwards they decided to change it a few years ago but iv been fighting them as the window installed is now a fixed window with no opening!" I doubt a child would have the know how to break a double glazed window in a worst case scenario.

OK, I think I will leave this here and let the child in the room make that decision while the building burns down.

I was referring to the type of restrictors installed by a building owner for security purposes after installation.

Look back through my posts. I have provided you with fire safety advice that could potentially save you and your family. The responsibility for the safety of your family lies with you. You requested advice and you have received advice from a number of people who work in the field of fire safety, I can tell this because of the wording and technical advice they are providing you with.

I presume you are not a fire safety professional as you are disregarding the professional advice provided here and instead looking to make a big deal out of the window situation.

My fire safety guidance below:

• Check your smoke detectors regularly - smoke detectors = early warning, early warning means a better chance of survival.
• Keep your escape route clear of obstructions when you go to bed at night, you dont want people tripping or have something catch fire in your hallway.
• Close all doors at night before you go to bed, this will keep the smoke and fire in the room of fire origin and will hopefully provide you and your family with time to recognise that the fire alarm is beeping and to get out of the building.
• Make sure all your electrical cables are sound. Do not repair damaged cables, throw them out immediately. My wife bought an expensive electric blanket about 10 months ago. Last week she showed me the cable on my side of the blanket, it was chipped and split. I dont know how. The rest of the cable was spotless. The full thing had to go straight in the bin. If she was not rummaging behind the bed it would have gone unnoticed and was a serious fire hazard.
• Draw up a fire response plan. When the alarm goes, everyone should know exactly what to do. No wandering around sleepy eyed, everyone gets up and gets out the door. Involve your daughter and let her know what to do in the event of a fire alarm activation. Dont go looking for toys, dont go hiding somewhere, come straight to mammy and daddys room and wake them up if they are still asleep.

Fire safety is your responsibility, dont put your trust in a builder supposedly doing his job right 15 years ago. I inspect a lot of buildings and see a lot of **** work. Trust me, take care of yourself and your family. Dont rely on anything or anyone else.

The conversation was over until you brought it up again.

I dont think I doubled down on anything. I saw syds comment and replied. The image he showed backed up where I was coming from, post installation restrictors. I was not arguing any point. His point was also backed up. We were both coming from different view points.

I have seen window restrictor devices added to windows in mental health premises where there is a risk of the resident either falling or jumping from an openable window. They had installed restrictor devices on the windows that were openable by a key.

HSE Information Sheet No 5 - Falls from windows or balconies in health and social care states the following:

I admit my original comment was not 100% accurate but it was not fully wrong either. Not sure why it has got your back up so much.

That’s a very long winded way of acknowledging you were wrong.

The HSE guidelines applied to HSE situations. It in no way implies that is the only situation where they can be used.

It hasn’t got my back up at all. I’m pointing out that misinformation so nobody is mislead by it. The forum is a resource for others.

And let’s be clear, what you say was fully wrong. Restrictors are allowed. You explained how you got mixed up, doesn’t make it less wrong though

I think the whole point of the thread the OP started was the fact the window does not open! Maybe read the opening post before telling me what I know about. The fact you were pissed when you had you're light bulb moment is hardly relevant apart from the fact it's probably why you took so long to break it. I think I'll leave you all to it here.

I admitted I was wrong. I was thinking about a different type of restrictor. I have no bother admitting when I am wrong.

My comments about restrictors not being allowed is still correct, it was just not relevant to this thread. I was talking about a different type of restrictor device that is not allowed and is stated as such in the snip of the tgd that was used to prove me wrong.

My abundance of waffle is actually sound fire safety advice. The op would be better placed implimenting that advice than worrying about escape windows.

I left this discussion 2 weeks ago, I'm just not sure why it's being dragged up again.

You half admitted you were wrong in a irrelevant post about the HSE. Then you added a "but it was not fully wrong either" and now "My comments about restrictors not being allowed is still correct".

It's was not correct. Simple as. The reason it's still dragged up is because you keep insisting it was correct despite you also being wrong. All you had to say was "sorry, I got mixed up with a different window lock".