Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

CastorTroy · 02-09-2023 7:11pm

Agatha is one that came about from the popularity of the character on WandaVision.

For Echo, I think she has fans from the comics like Kate Bishop and America Chavez. And from diversity side, having a deaf character/actress is part of the appeal.

gmisk · 02-09-2023 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060196#Comment_121060196

Agatha was a lot of fun as a character and Kathryn Hahn is a terrific actress I would watch more with her.

The echo character was the definition of bland, barely remember her in Hawkeye tbh.

pjohnson · 04-09-2023 7:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060196#Comment_121060196

They were midly interesting offshoots from WandaVision and Hawkeye so got greenlit despite absolutely no one being interested.

A faaaaar more interesting spin off would have been a solo Vision series introducing Viv and the rest of his droid family.

Viv would also slot in well with Kate and Kamala in a Young Avengers/Champions series.

But they picked Agatha because she went viral for killing a dog? Its a miracle there wasn't a spin off where Zemo is a dance instructor.

Doctor DooM · 05-09-2023 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060196#Comment_121060196

Can't really tell which is the chicken or the egg on this, but Marvel seem to have been all in on Echo for a good while. For some reason, she became a full blown Avenger and the new Phoenix in the comics?! That messes with a lot of other established stuff (many is the time it's mentioned the Phoenix loves/is obsessed by/is only compatible with/ won't immediately drive mad women named Grey). When it did possess others, they did mad **** like Cyclops killing Prof X. She seems grand with it in the bits I've read.

So yeah I think Marvel have just, in wrestling terms, decided to push Echo to the moon in the same way they did Iron Man about 2005. Whether Marvel's Cinema division or the comics did first is a question though.

Agent Coulson · 08-09-2023 11:47pm

Reports that Shawn Levy is line to direct Secret Wars with Deadpool 3 being the set up to it.

JP Liz V1 · 10-09-2023 3:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087956#Comment_121087956

Alfonso Cuarón also rumoured for Avengers Secret Wars

Cotts72 · 10-09-2023 10:20am

As was Sam Raimi I think?

pixelburp · 10-09-2023 11:02am

Alfonso Cuarón is no stranger to franchise work - his Harry Potter remains the series' creative high point IMO - but the MCU mightn't be a place he'd have much space to do same.

Foxtrol · 11-09-2023 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121091831#Comment_121091831

It isn't like he did anything that was beyond the framework of the story and he did plenty of worldbuilding that didn't pay off in his movie.

I know you always bang the same drum that Marvel impact the creativity of directors when there isn't much to back that up. Recent evidence is that Marvel have given directors far too much freedom for the creativity and it has been one of the key issues with movies being not as well received.

The main issue Marvel has had with certain directors is when they can't deal with some worldbuilding and only want to tell 'their story'. That didn't appear to be an issue for Alfonso.

johnny_ultimate · 13-09-2023 4:24pm

Hell yeah! You absolutely love to see it:

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/marvel-union-special-effects-iatse-1235722298/

pixelburp · 13-09-2023 4:35pm

Fantastic news: and hopefully, assuming Marvel/Disney don't pull some outsourcing shenanigans to bypass the Unions, this will have the side-effect of giving the teams more time to create better FX. Cos ye gods the latter-day MCU films have had some shocking FX in places.

silverharp · 14-09-2023 12:41pm

from something I saw there were <100 in house VFX people between Marvel and Disney Studios that were joining the union while the rest work for third party companies and these werent included

The Golden Miller · 15-09-2023 10:27pm

Started watching that Hawkeye show and I think it's the straw that broke the camels back, as far as me following the universe goes. Abysmal, cringing through it. No stakes whatsoever, some nonsense that a teenage girl can become a superhero just like that, as if it's a game, taking down these serious crime outfits.

Thor was the last film I seen and sums the whole thing up, the universe a parody of what it once was. Thor a serious character breaking the odd joke here and there, the last film was nothing but 90 minutes of rubbish quips. Even in the final battle, joke after joke. How can you take any of it serious?

They should pack the universe in at this point, well past its sell by date, or build it around Green Goblin/Norman Osborn as the all encompassing villain in the universe like the comics. One thing Marvel is short on is top villains.

Osborn/Goblin is Marvels joker, and the only Marvel villain to carry menace and the weight of occasion everytime he turns up, he's the only Marvel villain given license to regularly kill other major characters in the comics and films

In his short appearance in the latest Spider-Man, carried a far more sinister undertone than Thanos did in ten films. Marvel has become fluffy nonsense, they need a villain you can buy into, where you can feel the stakes go up, and who carries real menace and dread, who's a serious threat and who will kill. Green Goblin/Norman Osborn is the only Marvel villain who lives up to that billing

Cotts72 · 16-09-2023 5:12am

I actually enjoyed hawkeye but agree with your other points...for me Thor is a poor reflection on the character...an all powerful god that more often than not comes up second whilst making stupid jokes in between. If theres another movie keep taika waititi away from it!

New world order along with the new Spiderman could be a perfect way to bring in Osborne and Introduce the dark avengers. Marvel needs to stop with the one off movie formula and revert back to phase1 where each movie served a purpose and build up the next installment . Keep Osborne and dark avengers around in multiple movies or even bring in Dr doom

pjohnson · 16-09-2023 9:29am

The most unforgivable part of Thor is that it wasted Christian fùcking Bale. But tbf the movie Bale was in seems like it woulda been fantastic as he was on such a different wave length to everyone else. Crowe suffered similar as his deleted scenes were far better than anything actually in the movie.

flazio · 16-09-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116284#Comment_121116284

I'm curious to know if "Miller" in your username is a reference to Frank Miller, well known for dark comic story lines.

Up to now the DC cinema universe has been a mess and really can't be used as a yardstick for the MCU to measure itself against. They both have gone in different directions and there's room for both. MCU is not a dark hopeless place, never has been and won't put bums in seats if it does go dark. Innovative movies like the animated Spider-Verse are the way to go.

pixelburp · 16-09-2023 1:28pm

The last Thor movie isn't a great albatross to hold over the MCU's neck given it was widely, if not almost universally panned by even mainstay MCU fans.

The Golden Miller · 17-09-2023 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117044#Comment_121117044

I suppose they're hesitant to revolve the universe around Osborn as the villain as Sony still own the rights. But he's the only villain Marvel have who has transcended the comics into popular culture to near Joker level, carries dread, fear and menace in a way no other Marvel villain does, and raises the stakes. You know someone will die, or something major will happen, when Osborn/Goblin shows up.

As you alluded to in your post, Osborn/Goblin has gone from a Spider-Man villain over the years, to the main all encompassing villain in the comics, leading the dark Avengers etc. It's only natural he should be the main threat in the universe for the movies too.

How many villains have Marvel tried at this stage, and who failed? Thanos was a moderate success, Loki popular but more an anti-hero, Red Skull killed off but still wouldn't have the pull off the Goblin. But none of them embody that unstable, pure manic evil of the Green Goblin, or have that popularity with the public. When the Green Goblin shows up, it engrossed the audience, the stakes rise and you can feel a nasty and uncomfortable undercurrent you get with no other villain.

Osborn/Goblin is the only villain Marvel have that has such a weight and pull on every level, he is the ultimate threat in that universe!

The Golden Miller · 17-09-2023 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117908#Comment_121117908

No it's not a reference to him, username the same as the horse Golden Miller

The Golden Miller · 17-09-2023 12:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117908#Comment_121117908

The Green Goblin showing up and causing general mayhem puts bums on seats, like the Joker. The last Spider-man was one of the highest grossing films ever I think, that was off the back of the Green Goblin being teased in the trailer, everyone wet themselves!

Venom, Doc Ock, Magneto, Kingpin, Loki, Red Skull, Dr. Doom, all classic Marvel villains but all a level below the Green Goblin. He's the embodiment of evil, and has no remorse. He's even more unstable than Carnage, which is frightening, and far more sinister as he's smarter than Tony Stark. He is the ultimate villain!

Doctor DooM · 18-09-2023 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120718#Comment_121120718

I don't think you know Doom too much if you think Osbourne is a more sinister person than mr "wears my ex-girlfriends skin as a suit of armour" :D

pjohnson · 18-09-2023 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124937#Comment_121124937

I find it hard to see past Sabretooth when it comes to outright sinister/evil. I'm pretty sure even the Carnage symbiote noped outta trying to use Creed as a host at one point as he is just too far gone.

Doctor DooM · 18-09-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125027#Comment_121125027

You have a point there. He's a really nasty scumbag if you read his stuff.

I read a tweet thread years ago- can't find it now- I think by Ed Brubaker who was talking about a problem with comic book villains. If they're popular enough to hang around, pressure begins to mount to turn them good. So you're faced with a choice to turn them into anti heroes (Venom, Magneto) or have them cross the Rubicon and do things that are so truly terrible it takes that option off the board (Joker, Sabretooth).

The thing is every now and then they want to turn Victor into a Wolverine-ish good guy and you really shouldn't. So there's always an alternate reality version or a magic spell turning him good or whatever when they should really just let him be a malignant blight on anything good mutants try.

CastorTroy · 18-09-2023 12:01pm

What did Sabretooth do that was Joker level bad?

Of course they could just suck the sins out of the villain and have him be a good guy.

Doctor DooM · 18-09-2023 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125327#Comment_121125327

He is not exactly a fan of consent, especially with people who've had a relationship with Wolverine.

I'm pretty sure he's down with consuming human flesh too.

There's certain crimes in comics you can't just brush away by waving the magic wand on a character. The real reason Hank Pym isn't Ant-Man in the MCU is the character once hit Janet Van Dyne in the comics, and that stink has never washed off. They've tried- it was found he was being driven insane at the time- but some things stay with a character.

In the case of villains like Creed, Brubaker was saying often the committing of horrific crimes can be a deliberate act by the writers, saying "this character is a true villain, there is no redemption for them, they are gone too far".

CastorTroy · 19-09-2023 8:44pm

Ah okay. Not up to date on the X-Men characters considering there are so many different comics for them.

As for brushing away what happened, look at something like Prison Break to see how people have selective memory, with T-Bag becoming a fan favourite even though he was a murderer and rapist of children.

Or to keep it in comics, Joker currently has an ongoing series. So while not an antihero, people are still willing to consume media about villains.

pixelburp · 30-09-2023 7:36pm

I saw a mistaken, premature listing of The Marvels in American cinemas noted it's gonna run at 1hour 45minutes - not just short for a MCU movie but blockbusters in general. Delighted to hear this as flab has been a recurring problem for the genre IMO. A little lean pacing and momentum will go a long way

eightieschewbaccy · 30-09-2023 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178258#Comment_121178258

I'm hoping it turns out okay. Really like Kamala Khan's character plus Danvers needs another chance.

pixelburp · 30-09-2023 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178706#Comment_121178706

Well one thing's for sure if that leak is true: it won't outstay its welcome and there'll be no flab on it. So that alone gives it a chance it be focused if nothing else.

silverharp · 02-10-2023 8:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178746#Comment_121178746

An argument was made that if you line up of the Marvel films by length , with a couple of exceptions the weaker films tend to be shorter and the better one are longer. So could be a sign that the studio doesnt have much faith in the film and just want to get as many showings as possible

Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

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