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Divorcing PPR and child maintenance

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Think its a max of 150 per child...its surely means tested tho in some shape or form and other stuff will have to be taken into account if ye are going 50/50 with em i dont see why you would be paying her anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭rowantree18


    Any advice about burning her in court etc is poor. I'm telling you seriously only the lawyers win. It's unbelievably expensive and you'll be on the hook, not her.

    I'm a woman, divorced abroad (eu) where you only get assets you had before marriage, anything which was yours stays yours. No spousal support as everyone works (good kindergarten system) just state regulated child support if children live in one household. My ex and I are good friends as no acrimony due to a simple system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭jj880


    Sounds like a utopia of common sense and progress compared to here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    And you think the mature way of handling this is "going to war" and "destroying" the character of the person you have to spend the next 20 years raising your children with?

    As for the kids - their parents broke up. **** happens. They can be told more about it when its age appropriate. But one parent going to "war" on the other and growing up will parents who can't be civil to or around each other will end up hurting them a lot more than the original reason for the break up will.

    Imagine growing up in an atmosphere where every shared occasion (and there will be many over the coming years) is a tense, angry, battleground between their parents that the kids have to endure? Every birthday party, christmas, school event.

    Doesn't sound very nice for the kids, does it? You have a think about that, rather than some desire for revenge.

    Thankfully, the OP doesn't sound like the kind of guy who wants that for his kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    There is no typical amount Hammerhead1. Every couple's situation is individual. It depends entirely on both of your incomes and outgoings, and then the child related expenses, shared time, etc.

    But I can tell you that €85 per child per week would be considered a very reasonable amount.

    Also the cash value of Child Benefit and the Single Person Child Carer Credit should be factored in when maintenance is being assessed.

    But - and here is a difficulty. You can't say it's "for the mortgage" and then claim it's also "for the kids". It has to be one or the other.

    You should be paying half the mortgage, and half the child related costs, and the mother paying the other half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    They didnt break up, there mother cheated and destroyed the family to put her needs first. You are correct tho there would be consequences and it would be ugly but in time they would understand, I would far rather that than a fake environment where everyone pretends to get on. All the while she cripples him financially for the foreseeable future. She will be having a ball, living in the house his paying for probably letting the dude she cheated with live there rent free all the while churning in maintenance on top of lone parents which of course all that money she'll DEFINITELY! spend on the kids and not herself because shes clearly of high moral standards....

    He's kids would be alot more resilient for knowing the truth rather than being "protected" and lied to about it.

    They would develop the coping mechanisms and way to deal with issues rather than hide from them.

    In truth its the country that needs to change adultery shouldnt be rewarded and instead punished.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    But the ex was never on the mortgage and never contributed to it . It’s in my sole name purchased pre marriage . Regardless of if it’s for the kids or not I cannot pay out more than the 1500 I already am which some months is closer to 2k with all the ongoing extra costs



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    Also does anyone know If the settlement meetings can occur in advance of the 2 years apart rule ? We are not eligible for divorce until next august but I’m trying to get it all moved along as fast as possible



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭rowantree18


    Most eu countries work this way. Anything including property which was owned outright by one person stays that persons, its not up for grabs. In Ireland even a pension is on the table. But a lot of what goes on is due to a crap childcare system and women thetefore staying at home or going part time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    You'll probably have to come to a compromise but the children will need a home and since she cant afford it you'll have to maintain the status quo. They will be looking at it from the angle of whats best for the kids not you or your spouse.

    Her staying at home during your marriage is worth what she would have lost in earnings i think.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    She may never have contributed to it monetarily but you are a father of 4 children who was still able to work full-time without having to engage or pay for child care. This was enabled by your wife staying at home to mind your children and it does have a value.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    It doesn't matter. Once you married, the house became a jointly owned marital asset and is protected by the Family Home Protection Act, 1976.

    All assets and income become jointly owned once you marry. From that date, the court won't see it as you paid the mortgage "by yourself," but that you paid it from the joint family income.

    But - when the property is eventually divided, or one of you buys the other out (have you considered offering to buy her out?) it does not mean any equity will automatically be split 50% : 50%. The proceeds of any sale will be split based on contributions made - both those you made before the marriage and whatever comes after.

    But working part time and raising four children will be seen as "contributing" to the family pot even if it was not directly in cold hard cash to the mortgage account.

    By the way, the max child maintenance that can be awarded in the District Court is €150 per child per week, and Spousal Maintenance can be up to €500 per week. However, as your ex-wife has her own income the likelihood of spousal maintenance is also close to nil. The mortgage will be dealt with separately to child related costs.

    (The Circuit Court can award higher amounts, but like has been said, they won't order you to pay what you can't pay.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    I get what you’re saying . Buying her out with no provide her with the means to purchase a house. Not that much equity in it .



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    What way is your ex about the whole thing? Seeing as your not going the fire and brimstone route, is she reasonable or even remorseful? She might willingly let you off the hook and give you the house as a good will gesture going forward to try and mend the relationship to some extent? You could let her live there till she finds other arrangements ect?

    Maybe ye could come to a more customized agreement that would suit you both?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    No chance of her leaving she has nowhere else to go. Her new relationship may progress but who knows . We are able to communicate. It’s reasonable amicable for now .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    This will be horrendous for you financially because if she has a new relationship your going to have to mind the kids aswell and thats gonna be hard to do if you have to work and your going to have to work more or increase your income if you are to support essentially 2 households.

    Get her to give up the house to you and then you rent it to her she can pay you rent allowance? its a tough spot to be in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39 CatLick


    Is it possible to engage in a formal mediation process with her?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    There is family mediation available, and the Courts prefer to see it attempted before actually going to before them, but unless you pay privately there are waiting lists.

    Family mediation for separating couples (citizensinformation.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    Tried it . Failed unfortunately



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    Tried it . She did not really engage and it fell apart



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Failed in what sense? she just completely unwilling to budge or?

    The long and short of it is she has you over a barrel in every sense of the word, its financially incentivized for her to take you to court it can only improve her situation she essentially cant lose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    Already mind the kids a few nights a week . Is what it is . She is entitled to move forward as am I



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    It's not possible to her to surrender a family home to him and then him rent it back to her while she claims rent allowance.

    Please do some fact checking before posting?



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    It absolutely is, you should check your own advice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Well that's good, and I agree but moving forward is going to be very expensive for you for a long time.

    You would be better off going "unemployed" and letting the house go to the wall, because your going to be crippled going forward if you have to keep paying for it, you will struggle to start a new relationship and you will more than likely be stuck living at home.

    Paying maintenance is one thing but a mortgage on top of it is down right unfair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    Even if it was possible I can’t see it as a runner . Revenue and social welfare implications .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    No, its not. The OP's ex-wife has a financial interest in the property as it is a family home.

    As an aside, you also cannot claim rent-a-room for family members, either.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    Please stop with the terrible advice. "You would be better off going "unemployed" and letting the house go to the wall" - how is his 4 children being made homeless while he is unemployed and unable to afford a new home for himself or them a good result for anyone??



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Whats the alternative ? Pay a 1500 mortgage and maintenance on top of it off a 3500 wage?

    What life is he supposed to have out of that where will he live? horrendous fate for anyone and an absolute joke his ex-wife can freeload without any consequence.

    She's the problem and his punished for it, absolute joke.

    If he takes your politically correct advice he will be ruined in every sense of the word! She will be living it up in the house his paying for while he is on the breadline if his lucky!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    You want the family destroyed, seriously you need to get some help, giving bad advice won't heal your hurt.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    The family is already "destroyed" she already did that.. to use your dramatics, but on top of that he now pays 2000 of a 3500 wage to house her and yet she believes she is entitled to much much more, Your advice of going to court and pleading with them and being nice to her is delusional. He will be on the breadline with a chain around his neck for the rest of his days while she lives it up carefree so yeah i would be doing everything in my power to not give her a cent.

    An ideal scenario for him would be to get custody of the kids and her not being able to provide a house for them would benefit his case.

    The last thing he should do is accept the status quo for some naive attempt at keeping the "peace".

    Its you that needs help bud, you're the one attempting to be a boards.ie therapist. lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    It's their house.

    The mortgage is not €1500. His total contribution averages €1500 per month. The OP hasn't specified how much the actual mortgage portion of that is, and he doesn't have to.

    His ex-wife is also hardly going to be "living it up" any more than he is, on a part time wage and social welfare with four kids to look after - and I do believe she will be ordered to contribute financially - probably by way of less maintenance in lieu of mortgage payment but legally that's not a great idea either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Its her house he just pays for it.

    Add up childrens allowance, lone parent for 4 kids ect and how much his paying she probably earns more than him and never has to lift a finger.

    And has the neck to look for more...

    Horror show!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Hammerhead1


    Child benifit 560 per month . Wages 1.2k per month . One parent 1k per month . No mortgage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Yes, because working part time while raising four kids is "never lifting a finger".

    Its already been explained that the value of child benefit will be factored into any child maintenance payments, and that OPFP to the mother is means tested.

    But don't let mere facts stop you from venting your spleen.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    My "politically correct" advice is to not make his children homeless by giving up on mortgage payments. There's nothing controversial about that.

    OP needs some real legal advice about how much he is currently paying and to perhaps go to the family court to have a judge decide what is a reasonable amount to pay taking into account everything both he and his wife are contributing. Maybe it's what he is paying now, maybe it's a bit more or a bit less. I sympathise with @Hammerhead1 he's in a very tough spot at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    She gets 2760 for the privilege of getting to raise her 4 kids and you want to call that work? give me a break!

    Meanwhile he gets his wages halved and no where to live and solicitors fees sprinkled ontop.

    All for a situation that she created, he has my sympathy anyway this country is a joke she shouldnt get a washer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,085 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So in essence the ex-wife is in a better financial position than the husband, yet he is expected to foot most of the bills?

    Family Law in Ireland is a joke shop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭jj880


    🤯 Wow that is shocking!

    Always thought everything would be sold, split then a child support payment paid. How naive of me!

    Does she get FIS or equivalent? Back to school?

    Surely this is all taken into account at some stage?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Who said make them homeless? Im all for making her homeless never said anything about the kids obviously if he didnt have to prop up her life he d be able to afford his own accommodation for the kids and tbh that would be justice as he done nothing wrong.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    And how would he afford his own accommodation if he was unemployed as you had suggested and had let the house "go to the wall" - he won't get another mortgage after that, his credit rating would be fecked. Use your head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,085 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    This brings up an interesting point though.

    What if he was made unemployed in the near future and he was not able to keep up repayments?

    Would the banks make them sell up and split the assets?


    Tbh, the scenario presented currently by the husband is one like an indentured servant of old. In any other scenario, it would be illegal to enter into a contract or position like this, but because it's a divorce it's seen as acceptable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    You obviously place no value on the work of stay at home parents. Enough said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    How ? he can use the fresh start scheme, the absolute worst scenario for him possible is to leave her in that house with him paying for it that is an absolute doomsday scenario. He would be better off renting anything would be better than that!



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Alonzo Mosley


    Absolutely spot on. Best bit of advice to give the OP. I was in a similar situation. Let the judge decide. Whilst it can be argued that the father gets shafted, judges are not stupid. Let the judge study both your and wife's statement of means and let them decide.

    You might be surprised that some judges are quite sympathetic towards the father.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    I am a stay at home parent, i do not consider raising my children work but a privilege.

    You have a warped view of "work".

    Speaks volumes about your views on this situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭jj880


    The post was worded poorly. Agreed.

    However what would be a fair value placed on the main stay at home parent in this case?

    At the moment he'll be lucky if he can feed himself. There has to be some middle ground somewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Hammerhead1, in fairness to you, you should also be calculating in the cash value of the SPCCC as income to her (Single Person Child Carer Credit) - or maybe you already are.

    Currently your ex-wife's income is less than yours, but you won't be expected to pay spousal maintenance. You haven't said how old your children are, but your ex-wife's OPFP entitlement will end when your youngest turns 7, so things may change substantially then. She'll either have to go onto JST and look for full time work, or possibly claim WFP.

    I do think you will end up paying less than you are now in final settlement of the divorce, depending on what is ruled for the property.

    One thing I will warn you against is something I mentioned previously, paying the mortgage in lieu of child maintenance. Don't do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    It will all be taken into account in a divorce.

    But the Courts won't put minor children out of their homes, to satisfy a vengeful ex.

    (Which in fairness, the OP is not.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Let the children stay and the father that isnt at fault stay instead boot the mother who is at fault out and let her reap what she sowed. And have her pay for the childcare while he works.

    That's not revenge that would be justice.

    But alas thats where our courts fail, fault is never a consideration.

    Dont know why your struggling with that or have this idea that i want to make children homeless...



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