Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

@Bobtheman part 2!

We need to ensure that people who are accepted are treated well and integrated properly so we don't have some of the worst effects of ghettoisation and radicalisation of disaffected marginalised immigrant communities like UK and other countries. If people are given the same opportunities and with the proviso that all new citizens have to learn the language and about the history and culture, weill be on the right track.

I don't accept that this is an impossible situation for Ireland.

Unlike other countries our history of migration, our lack of a defined class structure, our good access to education makes us a great country for new people and families to make a good life here... and I'm not talking about free houses and social welfare benefits here as no doubt somebody will come back at me with.

Racism, lack of housing and lack of integration are the three problems that must be addressed if our society is going to function well in the future, regardless of who comes here to live.

You are right about the planning. None of this works without proper planning by government.

And this is why people are worried.

Its like the gpvernment have been caught by surprise and plans are being made up as they go along.

Like they didn't know we had a problem with housing before/ over the last 8 years?

So about we retain the immigration (it is of course necessary in any modern) but reduce the overall numbers permitted entry to avoid any additional undue strain being placed on our services while they attempt to catch up with our population growth?

"Where will it end? I fear we only need to look to places like France, the UK and Germany to see that. They're further down the line with this "experiment" but there's no reason to think Ireland will be any different - especially given the "quality" of our Government and TDs in general.

In any case one thing is certain, it's going to get worse before it gets better. No other outcome is possible so long as the politicians stay this course."

It's crazy, realising you wrote this at about the same time as the stabbing in Dublin Airport yesterday morning.

There's been numerous examples over the last few years (even covered by the main outlets) that suggest this isn't always the case by any stretch.

Says who? By what metric? Please don't suggest pre-Famine times where people lived in absolute poverty and squalor as any sort of barometer.

Um no.. I'm afraid it's nowhere near as simple as that, and such "be grand" thinking is exactly why we're now in the position we're in on this issue.

I didn't say I didn't think it was possible, i know it takes a bit of time but you could do me the courtesy of reading through my posts as I have done with yours and others.

I think we will probably end up in a similar position in the short term and in a more adversarial situation with detention centres, more security gardai and costly legal battles if wectry to stop people at airports and borders. This is currently playing out in the UK as I referred to.

But long term we may cut numbers of those who are chancers because we won't be seen as a soft touch.

Those who are genuine refugees will still come in smaller numbers maybe, but we may lose from a reputational pov in terms of human rights.

I know some here. don't rate this as something to be concerned about, but it is only once it is lost that people can see how it moves a country's voice down the ranks in disvussion and mediation, and bargaining credit Again ref UK.

Finally to pick you up on the 'solutions' proposed on the thread....

All I have seen is abuse and various tones of "send them back home" , "scroungers" illegals, criminals and rapists and murderers, and various other forms of negativity aimed at the few of us who have been trying to focus on the pro side of the debate for a long time now. Not always and not all posters but enough to drive anybody with an alternative viewpoint from the thread pretty much.. Maybe thats the aim?, sad if so.

If people are worried about Sweden and France etc and the difficulties they have encountered, on a purely visceral level, it starts with rhetoric like that left unchecked and unchallenged.

How can anyone rationally discuss solutions or attempt to, when there are literal rabble rousing statements being trotted out, and not countered by all sides of the debate.

Its insidious, and its this "unwelcome" that will marginalise and cause all the problens people fear.

That is not to say there are big problems with the way our government have been handling everything, but if everybody continues to focus on that, we are going nowhere here and its just an echo chamber of powerless whinging.

I find your point in the above post that this whole uncontrolled immigration is being pushed upon us by high up in the EU interesting, but I'd like to know what brings you to that conclusion? If that is the case why are other EU nations not taking in as many as we are and why are some actively resisting? Do you think that other countries have more ballsy, perhaps more patriotic politicians who put their own people first and are not afraid to tell the EU where to go? And are our politicians just a shower of sycophantic me feiners more interested in feathering their own nests? Personally I'd be inclined to believe so and have long lost faith in any Irish politician doing what is right for the people who elect them, especially nowadays as they know they'll most likely get voted back in as there is so little choice in the political landscape.

However, sycophantic as they might be, one example stands out where our politicians did it differently to Europe. And that is when they outlawed foreign travel and introduced mandatory quarantine during the pandemic. Following the UK rather than the EU and a move that was criticised in Europe and had many complaining to the EU about Ireland violating freedom of movement. So they don't always kowtow to the EU. Which is why I'm interested in your reasoning as to why this mass immigration is being orchestrated by Europe and followed obediently by our Government.

There is no such thing as "No limits" advocates though. The Irish government would much prefer if no refugees came here at all, as it costs them a fortune and with no return (talk of NGOs supposedly actively wanting refugees to come to Ireland is just the usual far right conspiracy theorist nonsense). In an ideal world, we wouldn't have a single refugee heading in our direction.

Nobody in power has any sort of urge to address it. They will let it go and go and go.

The migrant issue isn't going to just stop or slow down. The Lampedusa incident will now be the blueprint for the smugglers. Just sail a floatilla at the island. Then there the earthquake and floods in Morocco and Libya. There's going to be something new every few months.

This stuff isn't going to slow down or stop and they won't do a thing about it.

I am already putting my evacuation plan to Poland in place. There's no future on this island.

But how can 'demand' be blamed? It's definitely a factor, but the main part of the problem is surely lack of supply. Trying to bluntly wipe out the demand seems no sort of a solution for a modern developed society and economy. Also, the vast bulk of migrant workers are seeking to rent existing properties, not purchase new ones.

Presumably the poster is an EU citizen. There is freedom of movement within the EU.

Would be a different story if their plan was to emigrate to Canada or Japan or what have you.

The difference is that I am law abiding. I will maintain the social contract. Will not demand the country changes for my specific needs and embrace their culture. Like the Polish did when they arrived here and are slowing returning home.

I am not against migration into Ireland. I welcome the vast majority of migration into Ireland. We as a public agreed to migration into Ireland from the EU. I am personally welcoming of people into the country from countries that share similar values to us and that have a good record of integration. South/Central America, most places in Non-EU Europe, South East Asia, Far East Asia.