Shannon LNG terminal plans rejected by ABP

And shoulder vast amounts of the population with further debt to retro fit houses that aren't suitable for electric heating. I live in a house, built '07, c1 ber, big mortgage, by all accounts its not viable to install a heat pump, so whats the alternative that I'm meant to rush to asap.

If wind generation continues to grow, electric vehicles become the norm, why the rush to remove natural gas from heating houses.

So its an administrative issue that can be amended. They're essentially pricing people out of the ability to heat their homes without a clear alternative.

It’s not an administrative issue, no. It’s a legal issue and there is a strong democratic mandate from member states and the Parliament. The government in fairness is trying to make it more viable to switch. In the end though, homeowners will have to take some responsibility.

We could use the cost of an LNG terminal to help householders upgrade tens of thousands of homes.

You were the one that wants us to do something asap, so tell me what this great viable alternative that I'm meant to heat my house with. And this isn't a solo problem, there hundreds of thousands, if not over million homes that need to move away from fossil fuel heating. What is this great plan that you are so keen for everyone to follow.

What about when our sun goes supernova?

Gas and oil will eventually run out, and if by that time we don't have a plan we will be fked. End of civilization fked. But it's crazy that we choose to fk ourselves now out of fear of what may happen in the future. We have a short term problem, and we do have a short term solution. The sane thing to do would be to use the sort term solution to buy us time to look for alternative long term solutions.

So your solution, which you want to move to asap, is to indebt a large proportion of the population further by installing an inefficient energy system. Doesn't sound very green does it? Until new tech arrives it is pointless installing heat pumps as a heating solution in the vast majority of houses that currently use fossil fuel.

Short term problem is our dependance on fossil fuel, especially natural gas for home heating and electricity, and it's price and availability and the fact Russia controls a lot of the supply. Short term solution is to use LNG instead of piped gas.

Even better.... Ryan has approved the purchase and use of diesel generators (300 MW) for this winter and probabaly the next few winters.

Two large emergency electricity generators sought for Dublin – The Irish Times

You can't make this up.

So he found a short term solution but only for Dublin, the rest of the country can fk off and freeze.

We already have access to LNG supplies through the UK and the EU. There is now a large surplus of LNG import capacity coming on stream in Europe, something that wasn’t true three years ago. As a result having a terminal in Ireland won’t change anything.

Europe had access to Russian gas, until it didn't. Interconnectors of all types are a really, really stupid alternatives to self-sufficiency. Anyone thinking interconnectors should be a cornerstone of any energy infrastructure is barking mad.

Exactly what risk do you believe an LNG terminal in Ireland will mitigate? All the risks you describe there have been mitigated already by the extra LNG capacity already coming on stream across Europe.

We still have stockpiled oil we can rely on for electricity generation and we can buy more if we need it.

I have explained the point about how a commercial terminal would make bills rise before. If anything isn’t clear, please ask.

Because it would result in extra costs for energy consumers?

Thing is also that Shannon LNG plant had plans to install 120 MWh battery storage to provide grid balancing that is critical for load balancing and could/would help when the grid gets into a tight spot....

It would do 1 job of mitigating a risk (maybe low likelyhood high impact?) of loss of connection to the UK for any reason.

The UK is not as politically stable + rational as it used to be and as we've come to expect since foundation of the state until Brexit. They hold the spigot for the gas.

Then there is possibility that there is no malice and UK (and rest of the EU) itself are just short of fuel and they fully control how much we get supplied. We are at the end of long set of pipes.

I think we should have ability to import it ourselves or if not that to at least store a decent amount of gas that would keep us going for a few months (?) but we have neither yet and no plans (afaik - non expert I admit).

The only hedge we have is some of our own supply which will be gone in a decade or so I believe. I cannot imagine we will get far with a (more completely) "green" grid for all govt./Green party promises on that timescale.

We seem to be a nation of f-ckups and fools, the politicians and electorate both, when it comes to the planning & buiilding of very dumb basic infrastructure like city bus lanes, houses and apartments, hospitals, prisons...let alone these fairly revolutionary and cutting edge things like large scale high tech battery storage, offshore wind farms in rough seas, or a hydrogen production and distribution network so am a bit pessimistic about it.

You know what would have helped with that shortfall? Some gas for the power plants. Way better and cleaner and cheaper than diesel.

Not really no because it uses a pipeline which consumers have to pay for through the capacity charge whether it is utilized or not.

And that is the reason a commercial LNG terminal will drive bills up. The LNG terminal will mean that the pipelines will not be used but consumers will still have to pay for their construction, operation and maintenance through capacity charges.

Some of the hot-headed Brexiteers and hard core loyalists have noticed that we are utterly dependent on them - i think it was a Ben Habib tweet i saw at the weekend, but certainly this has not gone unnoticed in certain circles.

Biden won't be president forever and who know what might happen - who would have thought any of the madness of the last 7 years would have happened a decade ago.

If there was an outage of the Moffat lines how would that tankers LNG that we’ve bought be shipped to Ireland if we’ve no terminal? 😂

Again it’s a dependence on another country and no self dependence that is the issue. (I understand we’d be getting gas from another country via the LNG but we are not allowed explore for our own gas anyway).

How long does it take for the upfront cost to be paid off using the savings made on a typical house when you swap a gas boiler for a heat pump?

The pipelines cannot be used in both directions.

There is no demand for Irish landed LNG in GB. They have plenty LNG plants.

The generators are required because of the risk that a major generating plant goes offline at a critical time. These generators may never run at all.

Where did you get the idea that the gas supply is reduced? Gas has never been rationed (not since WW2 anyway).

Glad you have conceded that gas is not and never was rationed. Happy you have accepted that emergency generation has nothing to do with a gas shortage. Glad you have conceded that there is now less likely to be rationing as a result of all the extra LNG plants coming online across Europe. Heartening you have conceded there is no demand for Irish landed LNG in Britain.

I never said that gas prices would go up. I said that gas bills would go up. I explained this ad nauseam.

The conversation was never about rationing, you were the one using that word, not me. And the explanation for higher gas bills makes no sense even when repeated ad nauseam. What was going to pay for that terminal was the profit generated by selling that gas, not a levy added to the gas bills. And every terminal in Europe increases the supply in Europe and drives the price down. And even if the price goes down their profit still goes up because of the economy of scale. Win-win until the gas runs out, which is not gonna happen during our lifetimes.

You said or implied there was a shortage of gas and that was the reason minister Ryan was procuring diesel generation. But there isn’t, wasn’t and most likely won’t ever be a shortage of gas in Ireland. The capacity charge is for the existing infrastructure which would be left unused if we had commercial LNG. It would be like owning a car but ysibg a rental car to go everywhere. The rental ride might be cheap but you still have to pay the depreciation and charges on your car egen though you never actually drive it. I can’t understand what economies of scale have to do with anything. It’s hard to get greater economies of scale than you’ll get on three giant pipes.