Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

There is council tax in the UK as well.

Lower to medium wages, definitely more take home pay here. Less social insurance and more tax credits. On minimum wage here nobody pays tax or PRSI.

Once you start going into 40% tax, PRSI and USC, doesn't be long catching up.

I'd argue and have argued for years we should be paying more PRSI, not cutting it and USC. It's the thing that always gets recommended in many a report, but nothing is ever done about it, the opposite in fact. It's an easy one to tinker around with come budget time.

Anyway that's my old hobby horse. Anybody notice a tinge of John Majors last days in office to this government. Scandal after scandal? They seem to have just given up at this stage.

Yeah, Majors government was more sex scandals. Little did we know about him and Edwina Curry, but yeah, I'd say he's a more old school, traditional Conservative. Theresa May would be like that as well, for all her faults, I'd say the basis for her hatred of Boris, he's just a totally different breed to her.

You should understand that the Tories actually want this semi feudal state of affairs, everything in the UK is weighed in favour of the very rich. I think they have pushed things to far to fast for their own liking - but as far as the Tories goes everything is right on track.

Labour will get in for one or two terms but they have stated that they will not change any of the fundamentals.

The UK is a fundamentally low wage economy and it always has been - things have just got worse recently.

There's a new series on the BBC iPlayer which goes a long way to uncover the political realities of the last 7 or so years, since the Brexit referendum. I am finding it very revealing, even though I thought I knew a lot about it already. It's Laura Kuenssberg: State of Chaos. Worth a look at the foundations of the UK's current position

The average salaried worker here is paying the higher rate of tax from 40k.

In the UK, they dont pay 40% until they earn 58k (euro).

They also earn 10k more before they start paying ANY tax at all.

The cost of everything in the UK is also far cheaper.

There is no cirumstance in which the average salaried person or couple could be considered better off in Ireland.

Out of interest, why top 20%?

You mean if you are in the top 20% of earners in ireland you are better off in the UK?

I don't know what you mean by earn 10k more before they pay ANY tax at all.

The personal allowance in the UK is £12,570, about £241 a week, then you are taxed.

Tax credits here for a PAYE worker is €3,550, or €17,750 before you pay tax, €341 a week.

Social insurance contributions are less here too, plus no student loan to pay back.

London is a different kettle of fish and is very expensive. I agree.

But essentially anywhere outside of the South East is much cheaper than Ireland and even in London, Supermarkets, energy prices etc are cheaper than Ireland.

People on average incomes in both countries pays way more tax and insurance in Ireland than they do in the UK.

You will keep a considerable amount more of your income in the UK than you do in ireland.

And everything is cheaper in the UK. The only real kicker in the UK is council tax. But on balance, you are financially better off by some margin, as long as you work in a median or average paid job.

Did a few calculations.

Uk average salary 32k Stg

Tax and Nic about 6.5k

Take home 25,500

Average Ireland €45k

Tax and Prsi 8.8k

Take home 36,200€

When you take the higher average wage in Ireland and do the converting, still higher wages in Ireland.

Remember Thatchers rebates were negotiated because she didn't want regional development aid from the EU.

The Tories have been waging class warfare against the poor for 4 decades. If you don't realise this it's difficult to understand why the UK is in the state it is in.

It started with breaking the Unions and working class culture. The miners strike was a defining moment for modern Britain. The isn't anything Marxist about seeing this piece of history as a pivot for the nation.

Av salary in UK is 33k.

26.4k take home without optional deductions = 80% of gross income.

Av salary in ireland is 45k.

35.5k take home without optional deductions = 78.9% of gross income.

The cost of everything in ireland is much higher than the UK, further compounding the difference in take home pay value.

Basically, your money goes a lot further in the UK & you get to keep more of it.

There are also no fees for visting doctors or bank account charges etc.

Everything from grocery costs, energy bills to Sky TV and the price of a pint is significantly cheaper in the UK.

Why do you think everyone scarpers up north to do their shopping if they live anywhere near the border.

And once you move past the average earnings, the disparity becomes even greater.

Tbh, I live near the border and I find not that much difference between the North and South for grocery shopping, especially like for like in a chain like Aldi. It wouldn't be worth your while in time and petrol to go across on a weekly basis.

If you are buying a lot of booze or stuff in the chemist, it would be worth it then.

yes, but it is not something organised and planned by some elite in society to keep the working class down, the reasons for it are probably multilayered and complex.

Wonder how that leveling up thing is going, or the £250 million a day for the NHS.

Would be interesting to see poverty levels for deprived area from Maggie to Blairs time, and from then to now.

I will state it again - Maggie's Tory government deliberately and intentionally managed the miners strike and the GPO strike to break the unions and they spent the rest of their terms in power introducing legislation to that effect. They are still doing it.

Also the way that poor and disabled people are treated by the Tory government is another form of attack on the working class.

If that is not class warfare then I don't know what is.

The reason why it got into that state in the first place was because of the lack of collaboration. To be in management was to be drawn from the upper and middle classes. There was a divide which was rigidly enforced by the managers so the only way for workers to exert influence was through the strike. Management was bad because it was so top down and it eventually led directly to the collapse of British industry.

The British establishment had choices and could have chosen the German model which is incredibly successful and maintained very low levels of industrial action. They chose not to and eventually they decided that unions had no place in British industry and systematically chose to destroy them. They still have choices but they imagine that lack of workers councils is an advantage. The decline continues.