Divorcing PPR and child maintenance

rowantree18 · 19-09-2023 12:33am

Yes

jj880 · 19-09-2023 1:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128344#Comment_121128344

So he had to pay the mortgage until completion and wait 21 years for the chance to go to court to force a sale?

dickdasr1234 · 19-09-2023 5:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124344#Comment_121124344

This the reason nobody should bring a serious issue to boards: clueless idiots giving their tuppence worth.

Get proper legal advice!

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 5:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128424#Comment_121128424

Everyone already knows the "proper" legal advice and outcome it's a foregone conclusion.

If he goes that route he will absolutely be paying for the house for the foreseeable future and maintaining her lifestyle.

The cats and dogs on the road know full well what awaits him in court.

So screaming "get proper legal" advice isn't the winner you think it is. He's just gonna pay a solicitor to tell him his financially fucked for the next 20 years. And will most likely be couch surfing at his parents.

Infact his already been to a solicitor and still came here for advice. That says it all.

dickdasr1234 · 19-09-2023 6:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128444#Comment_121128444

Hehe, yeah, that's boards alright 'everyone already knows'.

They know everything on here off the top of their heads.

And the bitter, twisted advice you gave? Where can a half-decent human being go with your advice?

The man is between a rock and a hard place.

Living with his parents is not a long-term proposition?

Financially-speaking he has little other option.

The courts (in my personal experience, and in the words of my legal rep at the time) do not care if you have to live under a bridge, as long as you meet your obligations to your family as deigned by the judge.

Ranting and raving about infidelity or injustice does absolutely nothing to help his cause.

Cold hard facts might. He's unlikely to get them here.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 6:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128483#Comment_121128483

Your whole post is a contradiction.

If holding someone accountable and outting a disgrace of a person is bitter and twisted then we're in trouble lol

You laugh at people saying the out come is a foregone conclusion only to tell him "the courts don't give a **** where the man lives or how he gets by" lol

My advice might not be by the book but I would not under any circumstances pay financially to put a roof over a cheaters head, regardless of what it took, I'd support the children no problem I'd work night and day to do it but I'd burn the money before I'd give the cheater a cent. And there isn't a court in the land that could make me do otherwise. They could jail me forever more I still wouldn't give the cheater a cent.

The cold hard fact is if he goes to court and complies to there will be will be financially ruined while she is rewarded with a house and payment for her wrong doings. FACT

But submissive humans like yourself will always bow to that believing they are better off taking the "High road" 🤣 come back to me when you find a place that accepts morals as payment. Enjoy your life of indentured servitude.

littlevillage · 19-09-2023 8:11am

The OP is in a tricky bind and needs good legal advice from an experienced professional and probably needs to go to family law court.

The most any of the rest of us can do here is learn from his mistakes.

I think we are all agreed that he should not have moved out of the family home. He was paying the mortgage and had every right to stay. I know he was on the couch but he should have fixed up a spare room (take kids room etc.). By moving out he has considerably weakened his negotiating position and allowed the wife to bring her new partner in.

For all those blokes who own their own houses and are thinking of moving their lady friends in... Rent/mortgage free, DON'T!!

Also ALWAYS keep a secret bank account/stash of cash.... call it your "running away" money. Some day you'll need it.

rowantree18 · 19-09-2023 8:32am

Yes, it's not straightforward. She showed she'd put on an extension etc, there's all kinds of permutations. It doesn't automatically get sold overnight. He had to go to court and got 200k . House worth 600k 5 years ago, more now

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128671#Comment_121128671

The OP has already confirmed that his ex-wife's new partner has not moved in with her. The man has his own house.

(Also, the OP himself has a new partner).

jj880 · 19-09-2023 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128736#Comment_121128736

That's grim.

Its good to have a real world example for Ireland in this thread.

Some facts instead of cherry picking from posts and dodging questions trying to cod everyone that divorce in Ireland is not biased against the husband.

It most certainly is.

the.red.baron · 19-09-2023 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127164#Comment_121127164

some sort of bug I reckon

Tomw86 · 19-09-2023 11:31am

Looking at this very high level - is it not within the OPs right to sell the house if it is solely his name on the property? If so that would be the route I would go down. Your kids won't be out on their own as it will leave you in a better position financially (50% min equity from home and less salary handed over) so that you could potentially provide somewhere better to have them on your days/nights.

Also, I have been down this road before although thankfully no kids with the ex. We had a legally binding seperation agreement drawn up by a solicitor a few months after seperating so I would explore this option - it can go in to as much detail (including future pension contribtions) or as little as you want. Will be cheaper doing this in the interim period prior to divorce and then after it is signed engage an estate agent to sell the home (I did not need to do this as house was joint so we agreed to sell and split the equity 50/50).

the.red.baron · 19-09-2023 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129378#Comment_121129378

its biased in favour of the kids and therefore the primary caregiver

if the roles were reversed, the outcome could be the same

The real issue here is that the cost of housing means its almost impossible to split the house

Tomw86 · 19-09-2023 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129501#Comment_121129501

But can the OP legally sell the house, even if he has to split the 'gained' equity with the cheater?

the.red.baron · 19-09-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129512#Comment_121129512

she has to agree to it of course

the kids need to be housed.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129495#Comment_121129495

No, he can't sell it out from under her. Once the OP married, the property became a marital asset and is protected by the Family Home Protection Act, 1976.

Hence the reason why some of these laws were put in place - to prevent exactly that kind of thing from happening.

Tomw86 · 19-09-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129528#Comment_121129528

Thanks for the clarity on it and of course it makes sense.

If the OP is better off and can house the kids himself by selling the house then surely this would be an argument put to a judge to allow it. In any case I would have stayed in the house but you can't mess with your mental health which the OP noted was not good when he did stay.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129501#Comment_121129501

Thank you. Someone who gets it.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129541#Comment_121129541

Yes, he can definitely put the argument for the sale of the house in front of the Judge for consideration.

5 years from now, even 2 years from now, both the OP and his ex-wife could be in very different places. The OP doesn't say what age bracket they are in, but both have new partners, and life has a way of moving on. He may move in with his new partner (or someone else) and she may move in with hers (or someone else).

There is nothing yet to say the OP is going to be stuck living permanently at his parents and paying the full mortgage for the next 20 years.

Destroying his credit rating now as some would suggest he do, would not be a smart move for his own future chances of buying another place - either by himself or with someone else.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129528#Comment_121129528

He doesnt have to sell it, he simply has to stop paying for it the bank and the other laws will do the rest, its worthless to him now anyway its technically a financial drain and would be in his best interest to let it go to the wall. Atleast he wont have to pay a mortgage for her and he can use the money he'll save to house himself and the kids. Let her go shack up and leach off the new lad seeing as he has his own house.

Once he has all his other assets and money secured so it cant be touched he simply has to refuse the court and wait it out, she will have to get social housing when the bank take the house from under her and he will be free of the mortgage payments. Be alot less painful than having to pay for her house for the next 20 - 30 years.

Altho something tells me he wont be foolish enough to let her inside the door and will toss her to the kerb once bored of her.

There should be laws brought in to allow the forced eviction of someone proven to have committed adultery, it should be heavily punished for the damage it causes families.

jj880 · 19-09-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129501#Comment_121129501

Would be interesting to see some stats on how often the father ends up being the primary care giver instead of the mother.

I think we all know the answer to that.

That bias then transfers toward the primary caregiver just like you say.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129706#Comment_121129706

Read somewhere before its like in 95% of cases the mother will be awarded the family home and primary care giver on the assumption she will be the better parent.... Says it all really anyone here arguing the system works and is unbiased is clueless or biased themselves.

jj880 · 19-09-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129732#Comment_121129732

Sounds about right.

Soon you will have posters on here testifying that if the judge decides then its all grand. Definitely no bias there! 😂

I think this thread is cooked. No need to post anything further.

Dial Hard · 19-09-2023 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129706#Comment_121129706

There are manifold historical, cultural and social reasons why the primary caregiver tends to be the woman. That's probably a discussion for another thread, if not another forum altogether, though.

tayto lover · 19-09-2023 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129495#Comment_121129495

(50% min equity from home and less salary handed over)

I think this is incorrect. I was told by someone who was in the same situation years ago that the money from the sale of the house goes -- one-third to the wife, one-third for the children and 0ne-third to the husband.

Tomw86 · 19-09-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129839#Comment_121129839

Thanks for the real world example on that - I wasn't sure on it myself. Still would be much more beneficial to him to do this and then save mortgage payments each month, that is assuming the house is in positive equity.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 12:57pm

How many fathers go to Court actively looking for a 50:50 share of custody?

Or how many fathers were perfectly satisfied with their wives or partners taking care of the vast majority of the hands on child caring responsibilities, up until separation reared its ugly head, and then suddenly they want their kids lives split down the middle?

Or, to be as cynical as some on this thread are - how many men only look for 50:50 custody in the event of a separation because they don't want to pay child maintenance to their ex-partners?

In the vast majority of cases, it's usually the mother who IS the primary caregiver. It is most likely the mother who takes time off when the kids are sick, or goes part time so she can pick up the kids from school or even gives up their career entirely to take care of the children.

If men want this imbalance to change, then they need to start taking on more of the hands on parenting BEFORE their relationships fail. Not after.

Parental leave, Parents Leave, flexible working options, part time options - these are all options available to men as well as women. So why aren't men taking them up?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-20404510.html

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129935#Comment_121129935

Whats that got to do with, in this case a woman cheating? why should she get anything when she has proven herself to be a vile character ?

The truth is if a woman gets bored of her marriage she can just cheat and take all her partners assets, his life will be in ruins and she gets to continue on with her life as normal and 0 repercussions, because she knows the system is completely biased and will hander her a living on a plate.

To quote one poster "The courts dont care if you have to live under a bridge so long as the women and family are taken care of" seems very considerate and unbiased...

The system is broken there is no arguments to be made otherwise end of.

Ill say it again OP should be doing his best to protect all his assets from corrupt court proceedings while undermining her position as much as possible for his kids sake and his own.

rob316 · 19-09-2023 1:31pm

OP should never have left the house and now that he has should stop paying the mortgage.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128483#Comment_121128483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130050#Comment_121130050

What the poster you misquoted actually said was:

"The courts (in my personal experience, and in the words of my legal rep at the time) do not care if you have to live under a bridge, as long as you meet your obligations to your family as deigned by the judge"

the.red.baron · 19-09-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129706#Comment_121129706

its going to be similar stats to how many stay at home dads are there, based i would suspect entirely on earning power

the.red.baron · 19-09-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129732#Comment_121129732

it'll be based on them being the primary care giver pre-divorce, how do you think them stats play out

the.red.baron · 19-09-2023 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129675#Comment_121129675

dont pay the mortgage, lose all the equity built up in it over the years, kids out on street, you never get a mortgage again, you'll never buy again

so stupid

Dial Hard · 19-09-2023 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130050#Comment_121130050

Once again for the cheap seats:

Because Ireland is a no-fault👏 divorce 👏 jurisdiction 👏

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130611#Comment_121130611

I was wondering where you were!

jj880 · 19-09-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130611#Comment_121130611

And it gets worse.

I have personal experience of the high court and the associated "journalism".

Report on anything you're not meant to and its the last time you'll see inside the doors.

Not surprising this includes family law courts also.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 3:57pm

Incorrect. The in camera rule is to protect the identity of the family members involved in cases being published. However...

Section 40 of the Civil Liability and Courts Act, 2004 allows solicitors, barristers, and certain other categories of people approved by the Minister for Justice and Equality to attend family law cases and publish reports.

Part 2 (Sections 3 to 12) of the Courts and Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 2013 allows bona fide representatives of the Press attend family law cases (subject to the right of the judge to exclude any such representatives) and to publish reports.

The publication of reports of family law cases is allowed under these Acts on the strict condition that no names, addresses or any other details which might identify the parties can be used.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130402#Comment_121130402

The equity is already lost, he cant access it, he cant sell it, and he cant live in it.

And should he continue paying for it, and leave himself without the means to house himself or his children at the end of it all should she allow it he will get to sell it and she gets half.

Should he go that route he can never get a mortgage again as he would simply not be able to afford it outside of doubling his wages or winning the lotto.

Not to mention the damage living a life like that will do to the OP both mentally and physically from the constant stress of being on the breadline and desperately trying to get a place of his own so that he can have the kids over. And that wouldnt be just today and tomorrow that would be till his kids are grown time he can never get back.

However if he stops paying for it,

The house goes but so do the mortgage repayments, his ex wife will have to apply for housing which she will be made priority as she has 4 kids.

He will have freed up a massive chunk of his income and provided he sells and protects his current assets from the court he would have a real chance at rebuilding a decent life for himself and his kids, he would have the income to rent or buy potentially down the line done cleverly so the courts again could not go after it.

The only one that would really suffer and unfortunately only in the short term would be the cheating ex-wife due to the safety nets in place to help out these "poor souls".

The last thing he would want to do is rely on the Irish family law courts for any sort of justice or fairness i can only imagine the levels of hypocrisy and double standards he will be dealing with in there.

littlevillage · 19-09-2023 5:29pm

OP, please keep us updated wrt the legal advice you get and the eventual outcome here.

My layman's guess, is that the court will say, "arragh, sure aren't things grand the way they are now... " hammer falls and now feck off.

kravmaga · 19-09-2023 5:45pm

@ OP, Hammerhead1,

You should have never moved out of the family home in the 1st instance no matter what the stress or tension in the house with your Mrs or kids.

She can claim "Abandonment " in the Family courts. Blaming you on leaving the family/ relationship even though she had the affair.

Especially if your name were on the deeds of the house.

Hope you get good legal advice and don't make decisions before consulting your solicitor.

Hope it all works out in the end.

Hammerhead1 · 19-09-2023 5:45pm

Firstly it’s almost certain a judge will decide nothing . Settlement meetings in advance will allow negotiation on both parties . I’m not taking the burn the house down approach. I’ll survive for now and rebuild . Focus on the positives etc . Yes the current position is difficult but people have it worse . I have my health.

tayto lover · 19-09-2023 5:47pm

Whatever you do OP I wish you the best of luck.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131142#Comment_121131142

Best of luck with it OP

GarfieldandPookyBear · 19-09-2023 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126631#Comment_121126631

Stop with your advice. It’s bad advice and any judge would have a field day with you in their court! You sound very bitter. The reason for their divorce has no bearing on the arrangements going forward. The OP clearly does not share your spiteful attitude and does not want to be unemployed. He wants what is best for his children and taking them from their mother and their home so that he doesn’t have to pay her maintenance is clearly not in the best interests of his children.

As for you thinking the courts are biased, take a look at all the advice you gave him. That happens every day in the district court and that is the attitude that a judge will penalise you for. The courts are not biased towards mothers, they are biased towards the children! For a father to purposely lose his job and let his children’s home go to ruin is NOT putting his children first.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 7:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131342#Comment_121131342

My advice is exactly what he should do if his thinking in the long term, and would like to have any sort of a life for himself and his kids... no sane man would willingly hand over more than 50% of there wages to a woman that cheated on them so they can have a cushy life and he can be homeless, your advice is insane.

The reason for there divorce has nothing to do with it? thats awful convenient for the cheater isnt it? DID SHE PUT HER KIDS FIRST WHEN SHE CHEATED? We'll just skip the fact that she with no regard to her kids or family absolutely tore there lives apart and removed there father completely from there home... and now seeks to be compensated for her hardship...nothing to see her folks only a poor woman get the violins.

The truth is the courts can do nothing to a man that refuses to comply, not a damn thing, cant garnish wages he refuses to earn, cant take money or assets you cant find, cant seize items bought by someone else and "loaned" to him.

His goal should be to drive down the maintenance she can get to an absolute pittance and removing the mortgage is a fantastic way to do that and would free up a massive amount of money he could use to house his kids and even gain full custody once shes shown to be unable to provide for them.

And anyone that pities someone like that well... they deserve the miserable position they will inevitably find themselves in.

Modern indentured servitude.

GarfieldandPookyBear · 19-09-2023 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131481#Comment_121131481

Your advice is exactly the reason why father’s end up in trouble with a judge. You must have been cheated on in the past because you seem very bitter. The reason for the divorce doesn’t matter so you need to get over that. The judges or the law do not care about the reason, they care about the children and that they have a roof over their heads, are provided for and have parents who will put them first. The position he is in is because he has children. If he didn’t then it would be more clear cut.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131551#Comment_121131551

I dont know why your acting like this was some unpreventable natural disaster that befell the family, this was a premeditated calculated decision... by his wife.

Who rather than be remorseful is demanding more money... does that strike you as a person that is putting there kids interests first?.

I dont know why you are trying to attack me personally because you disagree with my opinion lol does it make you mad to know that i would deal with this situation in a ruthless manner and there would be nothing that could be done about it? does that trigger you? maybe you should ask yourself why?

Because if it was me i would be going to the absolute death and doing everything not to give her a cent... the kids would be looked after but she would be homeless and everything she tried to get would be a nightmare battle everytime.

Ezeoul · 19-09-2023 8:56pm

You are truly delusional if you think any court would hand over full custody of the children to a parent who would act like you're suggesting this man should.

Thankfully, the OP has confirmed that he has no intention of following your frankly terrible advice.

The man obviously loves his children, more than he hates his ex-wife.

delusiondestroyer · 19-09-2023 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131864#Comment_121131864

Again i dont know where or how your coming to the conclusion that my advice is to some how neglect his kids or make them homeless?

Its a genuinely impressive display of mental gymnastics especially since in every post i have advocated for the father to get the children seeing as he is the only one providing for them and is of good moral standing why would the courts give the kids to a woman that intentionally caused her kids mental distress and caused utter upheaval in there lives because she valued what she wanted over there needs? Better again why would you hope a woman like that gets them?

Are you saying the above person should be let raise kids? i think not and is exactly whats wrong with the system.

Its strange your not one bit outraged by the wife's actions but it seems your enraged by the fact that someone would seek to hinder and refuse outright to fund the life of a cheater, who is using her kids as a shield in a situation she willingly created, shes no remorse instead greedily looking to get more money.

Speaks volumes about you and tbh the more you try defend the indefensible, it just screams your a woman who more than likely has experience in the situation.

Hopefully he does follow my advice he and his kids will be better for it in the long run it will be the wife who is homeless and suffering and rightly so.

GarfieldandPookyBear · 19-09-2023 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131602#Comment_121131602

Aren’t you a sensitive soul for such a bitter person? I am telling you that the reason for their divorce does not matter and you need to get over yourself. Judges do not care and neither should they. God help your husband/wife if they ever decide to divorce you because you are the kind of spiteful person that would turn your kids lives upside down just to seek revenge on your ex. Judges do not look kindly on that kind of behaviour and as the saying goes “f**k around and find out”!

Divorcing PPR and child maintenance

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