Marathon Improvers Thread.

Yeah was out doing 20 miles on Sunday in the rain, never stopped. At least you can only get so wet and thankfully skin is waterproof

I wish i read this before buying!

I had the idea in my head that the extra carbohydrate was coming from the gel being more concentrated, i didn't think it was the exact same as the 100 version just in a bigger packet 🤣

Another follow up on this discussion and another big shout out to @Murph_D for his advice.

I did a base building block at the start of the year before kicking into a HM block and then following up with a marathon training block.

The results were a 2 min 5K PB, 2 min 5 mile PB, 6 min HM PB and to top it off in Chicago yesterday a 25 min PB and finishing yesterday in 3.29.44. All my PBs were from 2016.

Very pleased with the way this year has gone as the dreaded 50 looms on the horizon :)

I carry a waist belt and put the whole pack in there. Its a pack like this so carries fine.

Looking back on that comment is funny. Cos nutrition actualy let me down on the day, not enough salt at all

This was great to read. Fair play to you on a cracking year. 👏

Thanks.

As I mentioned before I use a stryd pod to guide the pace of my runs. For the program I used the Pfitzinger 18 week 55 mile program as a guide to mileage and cut backs, I dont really like his sessions and felt some of the weeks were a bit light in terms of distance so I would have peaked around 62 miles.

The plan as a pretty simple one and split into 8 weeks - 6 weeks - 2 weeks (taper).

In the 8 week block it was 2 days easy, 2 days workout and one long run. Using the stryd pod I could keep the efforts under control and it made sure that I didnt go to hard on the easy days or to easy in the work outs

In the 6 week block it was 3 days easy, 1 workout and 1 long run workout. Pfitz does a lot of vo2max but I am injury prone so I wanted to stay away from raw top level speed in general. So I concentrated on marathon pace improvements here. The workout I used is my favourite which is 15 min warm up, 8 Mins MP, 2 mins HMP, 2 Mins Recovery x 6,7 or 8 and 15 mins cool down. This gives a good 10-12 miles midweek with a good amount at marathon effort

In the Long run I would do 3km warm 1km MP 1km off repeats, and cool down. the following week would be 2km MP 1km off, and then 3km MP 1Km off, then back to 2km MP and then down to 1km MP for the long runs, these runs ranged from 19-21 miles. I also put in a 30km run at kilkenny as a dress rehearsal which gave me the idea I was in 3.30 shape, I did this run in 2.24

This meant I knew what marathon pace felt like and the stryd pod guided me to slight increase my pace as I got fitter.

I also trained alone, I missed running with club mates but it meant I could really dial in what I was looking to do rather than adapt and end up going too fast or slow depending on who was running.

Thanks, I get where you are coming from but I have had a horrible run of form in Marathons after 2016

4.11 in 2017, 4.36 & 4.58 in 2018 & 4.15 last year. After 2018 I said I would quit marathons for a while and after last year I was done with them until Chicago emailed me to remind me of my deferred 2020 place. I just wanted a good performance, I can sharpen the saw now that I have seen the improvement.

So, how are we all set?

My goal at the start of the year was break 3:30. Target was same last year but I missed it, came home in around 3:38 which was still a PB but was disappointed initially. When I looked back, I was happy with my training block but I felt nutrition let me down. I cramped badly and I realised I have actually cramped in the last 4 miles of my last 3 marathons

For this year, I have made some changes. Around January I fell in with a local running group and I ran all my long runs with them. We do trail running once a week which helps massively. I modified my training plan and I got out and ran 6 times a week (2 sessions on a Tuesday) and I also incorporated a core fitness class every week since August. I went sub 20 mins in the 5k for the first time in February and did it again in August so felt myself much stronger.

I ran the Cork marathon in June with a friend but I was pacing him. He wanted to break 4 hours so I wasn't going for a time (we didnt get it due to the heat) but I did all the training. I did the Dublin half and was going for around 1:35 but we got caught up in the waves, started with the 2 hour pacers due to needing to wait for the toilet and came home in about 1:39. Was very comfortable though. So comfortable I went and ran a 5k race the next day and did that in 20:06. So I am not too bothered I did it a bit slower than I'd like.

When I look at this year vs last year:

140 runs vs 92 runs

973 miles vs 656 miles (that was full year for 2022, still a bit to go for this year)

141 hours vs 91 hours

65k feet vs 41k feet of elevation gain.

I have obviously done way more. For nutrition my changes are: I have moved to Maurten gels and drink mix. I have also trained with adding precision nutrition sachets to the Maurten drink mix which will up my sodium on the day to help combat cramps. Since middle of September I take250mg Magnesium daily with 10g of Collagen and a Revice Active Zest supplement.

I have been using a training plan from a coach and he has been looking at my times and consistency and said I should aim for 7:35-7:40 min miles on the day as I am being too conservative with a 3:30 (8 min miles). When I have been doing MP in training the pace has been around 7:30-7:45.

So all in all, I am feeling confident. But still a slight bit undecided on what pace to go after on the day, I'll settle on it over the next week.

How is everyone else getting on?

Dont stress on it

Last year, I did my last 20 mile long run 3 weeks before Dublin. Only got out for 4 more runs between then and the big day due to a niggle.

Back in 2017 I only got out 3 times after my last long run.

Dont get me wrong, its not ideal. But as they say, the hay is in the barn. So dont force yourself or think all your training is gone, you will be fine come the big day

That's pretty sh1t.

Sorry to hear.

That's absolutely fantastic 👏

Delighted for you.

So said I would come back to a bit of a report. Anyone that has read my posts before might remember I was trying to break sub 3:30 on the day but fell apart last year, came home in 3:39. Was still a PB but I was bitterly disappointed. I was considering stopping running after it as I was very disheartened. I was doing all my running on my own, all my running buddies had quit and I moved house.

A friend of mine asked me to do Cork with him. He was doing it to raise funds, had never done one before and wanted Sub 4 so said I would do it with him for support. That got me training in the first half of the year.

Back in January, a local running club had something up about Trail running. I started doing a bit in COVID myself but this was with a group and that anyone was welcome to join. So I got over the nerves and went. Really enjoyed it and this became a thing every week, we all met up and ran about 6 miles. As the year went on, I became really good friends with most of the guys and ended up doing my marathon training with them.

In February, I entered a local 5k the day before, wanted to see how the pace was. For the first time I was wearing carbon plate shoes and for the first time I went sub 20. Delighted. Year progressed on, Cork came and went (4:21, my mate had to stop and walk bits and I was fine).

Started my training plan in July. The other guys I met at trails, they were also doing Dublin, 6 of us in total so every Tuesday we did trails and every Sunday we did our long runs. The plan I was following was the one I did the year before. Was one I got online, cant remember where. I also started doing a Core class once a week from July, had never done anything like this before. At the end of July I did a local 10 mile race, 68 mins. This surprised me. 10 days later I did another 5k and again Sub 20, a 17s PB and now stands at 19:24. However a problem began in my mind. For some reason, after 13/14 miles in the carbon plates my ankles are in agony. I overpronate slightly and I knew I couldnt wear them on the marathon. Yet I had set all my PBs in them. I pushed it down the line. At the end of August, I got on to one of the running buddies and they were following a different plan. So I got on to the same coach and got the same plan.

Did the Dublin half in 1:39. Not ideal but we had to start with the 2hr pacers cos we were late. Do lot of ducking and weaving. Wasnt too worried. Wee before this I got the Saucony Tempus for my marathon and wore them in the half.

Training really went well. I ran 6 times a week across 5 days (Tuesday mornings was road and evening was trails). Missed about 5 sessions in the 6 months.

Come the day, I was confident. Myself and one of the girls were going to run together. Her PB was 3:28. Mine 3:39. We both said we think we would go for 3:20 but I think we both thought that was slightly out of reach. I had in the back of my mind just get Sub 3:30.

So the day started and we went through half way at exactly 3:24 pace. Fueling was going well, I was taking Maurten gels this time. I was also taking the drink mix. I take a 500ml bottle in my hand, it had 320 mix and also a sachet of 1500 Precision Hydration added. I also had 2 x 250ml bottles with exactly half a 320 mix and half a 1500 sachet. I didnt fill those bottles, had them empty and was going to fill them on the way around. But I called an Audible on the day. After drinking the first 500ml of 320 mix I felt it was very sickly and sweet. So I said I wasnt going to take the empty bottles. But I was panicking as in the last 3 marathons, I cramped from around 16-20 miles and the 1500 PH was to neutralize this. But I knew I wouldnt stomach it.

Mile 16, I feel the twinge of cramp. Same spot. Panic stations. I luckily had taken some saltstick fast chews with me. So I took 2. This continued for the rest of the race. Id feel a twinge, panic and take 2 salt tabs. The rain started at some point. I had a sweatband on my head so must have looked ridiculous in the pissing rain. At mile 18 I felt something hit my leg. The runner beside me stepped on a gel which exploded all over the inside of my left leg. So I had a gel dripping down my legs in to my socks for the last 8. Lovely.

The girl I was running with was starting to struggle at mile 21. I kept talking to her, describing the route, the bends, the hills etc (its my 7th Dublin, she's never done it). I told myself I needed to do this to help her but looking back I think it helped me more, kept my mind off the cramp. We have done a huge amount of hills this year so roebuck wasnt going to worry us (I say it every year, its not a hill. It comes at a tough point but get out and do some trails and you'll piss up it). Once we got to that I knew we'd be ok. 2 of my mates at the RDS so that gave me a massive lift. We went through 24 in 3:10 so I asked her what was her PB. She said 3:28 and I roared that two 9 minute miles would get us a PB (slight lie) so we were going to do it.

About 100 yard from the line I spotted David Carrie who I know very well. He gave me a serious roar and I lift my arm and roared back.

Crossed the line, stopped the watch. 3:26:32. Delighted. Absolutely over the moon.

First half in 1:43:40, second half in 1:44:42.

For the day itself, I was comfortable for the last 3 really but I had no more to give. I am confident I can get better (goals are sub 40 for 10k and sub 1:30 for the half) but for the day itself, I left it all out there. I have done some in the past and thought

For more info, I'm a 41 year old male. First marathon was in 2013, Limerick in 3:58. I havent made the progression I liked but to be honest, I have never really given it the effort it needs. For years I thought I could keep doing the same thing and I would just get better.

From last year I changed a few things really: Core class, trail running, more miles and with some friends. Not rocket science when you look at it.

Here has helped massively too, I have looked at some others posting and seeing how aggressive ye are in your target setting and tried to do the same myself.

I have Run the Line in 2 weeks so that will be something different. I was hoping to find a good 10k and half before the end of the year to see if I can PB them too but nothing lining up. I've entered next year already, lets go for 3:24

Seeing as there isn't a 'Marathon Dis-Improvers' thread I'll just have to post here I suppose 😉

Ran 3:16 last year, didn't take up the guaranteed entry for 2023 as I wanted to focus on shorter distances and Cross Country.....but those plans all went spectacularly t1ts up from January onwards.

All the gory details are over on my blog including a race report from the weekend....crossed the line in 3:55 which on paper looks like a disaster but in the circumstances I'm over the moon with it tbh.

Edit: forgot to add that I ran a 5 min negative split.... first time I've ever done that in a marathon

10 years is long enough to forget the pain 😁.

In the early part of your plan try to have a rest day before the long run, plan the day before like a pre race day, eat well, get to bed early and don't take alcohol the night before, hydrate properly and most importantly slow down, 5.30 would be more appropriate pace for a long run on a 3.30 plan. The purpose is to get the confidence back, when a couple of long runs go right and don't feel so daunting it will all click.

Best of luck