2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

Clegg · 17-09-2023 11:24pm

England aren't very good. Their attack with ball in hand is littered with handling errors and seems pretty easy to read.

But one area of their game that's a definite strength is their kicking. They get huge height and distance from them and make a hard, effective chase. Such is the lack of quality on their side of the draw that I can easily see them getting to the semi finals. They'll play one of Wales, Australia or Fiji in the QF.

ersatz · 18-09-2023 12:09am

Poor as Japan were England strangled them. The only hope is that borthers brings Farrell straight back in and they try to play. Ford has been excellent in managing games for them, playing in the right areas and turning their opponents around, but they’ve had plenty of luck too. That style of play is always likely to deliver, which is why both England and SA have historically had success with it. One other thing they going for them is the level of experience in their team, half of them are very old soldiers.

Ardillaun · 18-09-2023 6:06am

I wonder if The Marler will become a thing, akin to a chip over advancing defenders when you don’t have the room to kick it? A Mohawk may help.

Pete_Cavan · 18-09-2023 6:18am

I wouldn't be surprised if Aus finished second in their group and then beat England in the quarters. For all the platitudes England have been getting about playing "smart rugby", they are just playing shıte rugby and aren't capable of better. They don't have a formidable pack and have no creativity in the backs. Aus aren't any better but they have individuals who can score trys and would do against that English defence.

It just depends how EJ handles the next week. If he can pull his team together, Wales are there for the taking. Beat Wales and I could see them beating an English team who start believing the hype and have an eye on the semis. Of course, if EJ gets all pissy and feeling sorry for himself (his standard reaction when things start going wrong), Aus will lose to Wales.

If Wales beat Aus, then it'll be England v Fiji (unless Georgia can do a number on Wales (again!) In the final group round, which would be fantastic). I think England would have too much for Fiji, despite how good Fiji have been so far. England would just milk set piece penalties and take 3 all day.

Hoop66 · 18-09-2023 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115468#Comment_121115468

It was 66 points. I backed NZ -66.

pixelburp · 18-09-2023 8:40am

That was a very dispiriting match to watch last night; two mediocre teams grubbing about for a result. Japan having taken a step back it seems, and you'd suspect Jamie Joseph might be departing at the end of his WC (assuming they didn't offer him a contract extension prior to it); I can't help feel the Japan of 2019 would have won that match. Japan v. Argentina's gonna be a bit of a showdown of two Tier 1 Apparents having a wobble.

Then there's England. They were awful to watch, and a real moment of sobriety after the periods of Tier 2 madcap glee. And it probably means they'll make the Semis or Final, cos of the much discussed way the draw fell. I'd like to see their tedium punished, but who's gonna be able to do that?

Cookiemunster · 18-09-2023 8:54am

Jamie Joseph announced before the RWC started that he was leaving after the tournament.

And if England make the semis, they'll face one of Ireland, SA, France or NZ.

pixelburp · 18-09-2023 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124669#Comment_121124669

Ah, good to hear thanks for the clarification. Don't think Japan have moved forwards, or even kept parity with their peak a few years back.

As to England being halted at the Semis, I'll believe it when I see it.

ButtersSuki · 18-09-2023 10:47am

I did watch the England game last night but it was one of the worst International (actually any level) games I've ever sat through. The sound of their own fans booing the spectacle in front of them says it all.

I know it's just one moment but Ford's kick off his weaker foot without breaking stride was sublime. It was the highlight. As bad as. england have been, Ford has had a great tournament.

Unless England improve dramatically and the refs continue to let them play as cynically as they do they'll not trouble anyone of note. Japan could genuinely have won that match last night had they been a little sharper at crucial moments. The scoreline is not a true reflection of that game.

Don't know if any of you listen to or watch The Rugby Pod, but Andy Goode's impersonation of Borthwick is very funny. Goode has been very hard on England from a performance perspective for months now. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say about this performance.

TheRona · 18-09-2023 10:59am

I missed the first Australian try yesterday, am only catching up now. What was the ruling at the time with the quick throw in? As I understand it, you can't take a quick throw-in if anyone other than the player who took the ball into the touch, or the person throwing in touches the ball. It looked to me like the Fijian winger tried to stop the throw-in and probably touched the ball, which would have invalidated a quick throw in. Did the ref even look at this when deciding whether it was a try?

irelandrover · 18-09-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125083#Comment_121125083

That's what I thought as well. Definitely seemed strange to not check it.

Quin_Dub · 18-09-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125083#Comment_121125083

Don't think the Fijian touched it , but the throw didn't go 5 meters so it should have been called back anyway.

pickarooney · 18-09-2023 12:31pm

If the Fijian defender touched the ball after the Australian winger had control of it that's a penalty against Fiji for preventing the quick throw and probably a yellow card given the situation. He should have run to mark the lineout with another player.

Stanley 1 · 18-09-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124222#Comment_121124222

On the kicking side, England did not challenge for any of the up n unders/Garryowens which Ford launched, they were hoping his screw spiral kick was enough as they were not going to have any more cards, they are hoping the Opp drop or knock on and this did not really happen.

The better sides will handle these kicks with relish.

sydthebeat · 18-09-2023 1:09pm

just listening to the ruck podcast and it seems Bernard Foley is hovering around the Australia squad waiting for a call up. He was seen floating around nice this weekend

Quin_Dub · 18-09-2023 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125657#Comment_121125657

You thinking Eddie might "Do a Pollard" and call up Foley for the next injury no matter who it is?

The decision to leave both Foley and Cooper behind is looking an increasingly poor decision.

Jacovs · 18-09-2023 1:45pm

Wales and Fiji now have equal ranking points, with Australia now below both of them.

Quin_Dub · 18-09-2023 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125641#Comment_121125641

England really aren't playing any better these last two games than they have played for the last year or so.

They are just playing against poorer teams in the last two games.

I don't see any material difference in how England are playing right now to how they played the last 2 or 3 times we've played them for example

They get stuck in in defence and kick the cover off the ball without much of a kick chase.

It's just that the opposition haven't made the defence work hard by posing multi-phase threats and the aimless kicking isn't being punished.

All of the leading sides on the other side of the draw would put them away without a huge amount of difficulty.

18-09-2023 2:44pm

Unless England have a LOT more depth to their game they aren't building momentum towards anything in my view.

TheRona · 18-09-2023 3:18pm

de Groot banned for 3 games, which can be reduced to 2, as expected.

Ardillaun · 19-09-2023 5:19am

Are we seeing more chip kicks over defenders this WC? I’m noticing it quite a bit.

stephen_n · 19-09-2023 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124297#Comment_121124297

England didn’t really strangle them. When they kept the ball in hand, they made meters easily. Their biggest issue, was they kicked too often and kicked poorly. If they kept running at England, they would have scored tries. England had nowhere near the line speed they had against Argentina and there were big gaps opening up after a couple of phases. A decent team will exploit that.

pickarooney · 19-09-2023 2:22pm

I think Japan got discouraged by so many handling errors when they ran/passed it. Those passes were all sticking in 2019 and their rugby had a beautiful fluidity about it that was hard to counter legally. I don't know if it's the ball, the humid conditions or a drop in quality of the team but Japan haven't really be Japanning it so far

Quin_Dub · 19-09-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130123#Comment_121130123

The impact of Covid on the Tier 2 teams cannot be understated - They've played hardly any rugby together since the last world cup.

AbusesToilets · 19-09-2023 2:54pm

The ball does seem to be playing an outsize factor, so many dropped passes so far. Is there a different texture for the WC ball from regular Gilberts?

Quin_Dub · 19-09-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130361#Comment_121130361

Think it's more the conditions - It's been very hot/humid so sweaty hands , damp grass resulting in a wet ball leads to way more dropped passes than normal.

Pete_Cavan · 19-09-2023 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130405#Comment_121130405

I don't see how conditions can be a big issue for handling. Rugby is regularly played in hot/humid conditions or some level of rain, the players are well used to excess moisture on hands/ball.

DGRulz · 19-09-2023 5:05pm

On Japan, how much is the Sun wolves not being a thing anymore impacting them? I seem to remember in the run up to 2019 it was stated Japan where together in camp something in the region of 200 days prior to the WC.

Cookiemunster · 19-09-2023 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130761#Comment_121130761

And I doubt it's any coincidence either that in their last 3 games Fiji beat England at Twickenham, should have beaten Wales and beat Australia after two seasons of Fiji Drua playing super Rugby.

Jacovs · 20-09-2023 9:11am

It doesnt hold any value, but from a statistics point of view its interesting, following these predictions, updated after the round 2 games:

2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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