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BYD Dolphin

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,825 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @dloob - "Bigger battery model is 427km WLTP which is a bit disappointing, Tesla Model 3 with the same size CATL LFP battery is 520km."

    Are you surprised? Tesla has the most efficient drivetrain in the business. The gap between those figures will be significantly bigger again on motorway range as the Tesla is far more aerodynamic. Not that either matters much, the cars don't compete.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,393 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I would love to know what everyone thinks of the coloured alloys? I think they are cool and if they done them in blue, pink and white I might even consider buying one of these in a few years.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Irish BYD Doplhin web page is up.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭innrain


    I see the prices are up too

    I was thinking the car is small but it seems it is longer than Kona and a bit shorter than Niro. I'm not on the market but I fail to see how the new Kona will sell at about 15k difference




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Fian


    Exactly the same battery and motor as the Atto 3, with a different body put on top of it. I went for the Atto 3 because i prefer the higher driving position but tbh the difference in price was difficult to justify really. When we replace our current remaining ICE we may well go for this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭innrain


    From beepbeep sales figures, the most popular cars for this size are Corola and Yaris Cross which are a bit more expensive than this Dolphin. So the excuse that there are no cheap EVs is gone gone. It remains the one with the infrastructure, where it is still a game of catch up, with domestic networks still installing chargers which others started installing 4 years ago but it got a bit better.

    I know it is just the beginning but the likes of ID3, Megane, Kona, Niro will have to get cheaper. They are 30-50% more expensive for less features.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,434 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Electrifying had a YouTube video up on the Dolphin last week and it's far bigger than I thought. It wasn't much smaller than an ID3 in their comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver



    Lot of car for the money.

    This price is like 10k below comparable EVs (ID3?) and even slightly less to ICEs like Toyota. This is a price gauging from BYD trying to see at what price they can get a market share in the EU quickly. It's close to a pricing at cost with minimum margin, in my opinion, given the transport costs, duties, EU regs, marketing, dealerships etc.

    But....

    The EU will likely slam extra tarriffs on Chinese cars. Which will be bad for us (the consumers) and for the electric transition (for everyone really - air pollution).

    Nobody is going to buy VW/Stellantis electric hatchbacks/small SUVs for 40k in large numbers. VW/Stellantis failed to innovate, because we have really no competition between carmakers in the EU unlike in China. Allegedly, it was the French automotive (surprise surprise) who were pushing for this EU probe and extra tariffs. The Germans are more cautious as they have joint ventures in China and manufacture cars there, so it would hit them too.

    Post edited by McGiver on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭djan


    I don't think that the Dolphin being substantially cheaper like for like necessarily means dumping is happening. Manufacturing in China is just cheaper due to lower operating costs and much higher levels of technology and innovation. European manufacturers have been living off their brand perception for a long time. With Kia/Hyundai and MG making huge inroads in the budget/value proposition market it is only a matter of time until "unknown" (to the West) brands are gunning it for the upper market as well. Comparing the likes of the Dolphin to a similar price Polo 1.0 poverty spec, there's just no comparison and that's on VW.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,393 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    With Kia/Hyundai and MG making huge inroads in the budget/value proposition market.


    It's a long time since Kia or Hyundai were budget cars do. Thet are not that anymore.

    MG are yes.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭djan


    Kia/Hyundai are definitely a value proposition brand. They do not compete with the premium brands marketing luxury etc. The fact that you don't consider them a budget car off the bait just proves their progress. I would liken them to the likes of Skoda and Toyota, solid no thrills motoring.

    MG is more budget orientated but even looking at the likes of MG4 you can see the development very similair to K/H so the EU players really have their work cut out. Hopefully there will be no market-intervention to screw over the customer.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Kia EV 6 is 100% positioned as premium



  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭DrPsychia


    I went for a test drive in the Design spec.

    I was amazed how much interior space there was for this size of car. They really stretched the wheelbase and thus there was a lot of legroom in the rear, I felt the seats were reasonably comfortable. Electric seats are have good adjustment but there's no height adjustment on the passenger seat of either design or comfort spec which is a bummer. I wasn't happy with the regenerative breaking and there was not much difference between standard or high. I don't understand why manufacturers can't implement one-pedal mode like Tesla. The brake pedal felt quite soft and didn't inspire much confidence compared to an ID3 or MG4. There was lots of wheel spin, even in normal mode so it's not good at managing traction, I felt the MG4 was far superior in this aspect but it is RWD. I didn't check what tyres were fitted. I would definitely fit some good Michelins after the factory tyres were worn.

    The dolphin is advertised as 200hp but it doesn't feel as nippy as the MG4 long range.

    The boot is a decent size with the underfloor cover removed.

    Servicing done every 12 months/20k kilometres but comes with 2 years free servicing, salesman said its mostly vehicle checks for the warranty. I'm still baffled how manufacturers apart from Tesla fleece customers with servicing on electric cars. I guess they have to keep dealers happy. The salesman said unknown how much servicing will cost in the future.

    Battery/vehicle warranty is great and industry leading.

    The interior felt well screwed together and material were nice, how it holds up when its driven on some rough Irish roads and hits a few potholes is an unknown. However, the interior is undoubtedly far superior to an ID3 or MG4.

    The pedestrian warning sound is too loud and needs to be lowered. There's another music external sound that can be chosen instead of the regular sound, it's so stupid and irritating I have no idea how it was allowed to pass the designer stage, as Bjorn Nyland says its silly Chinese design.

    I didn't get a chance to test the wired apple carplay because I didn't bring a cable with me. The default nav system is bad. Audio quality was decent given the price of the car. Infotainment system felt reasonably snappy.

    The "Build your Dreams" slogan is incredibly tacky and needs to go, for me it completely ruins the rear of the car. They're deleting it from the 2024 Atto3, this is build into the light bar of the Dolphin but it shouldn't be that hard to remove from the manufacturing stage.

    No rain sensor like the atto3 but hopefully they will eventually include it in the coming years.

    As expected, the air-conditioning system was blowing cold air even at 27c when ran for a good amount of time. Really needs recalibrating with a software update. It appears to be a continuing problem with Chinese cars.

    There's an amazing amount of tech. The camera quality of the 360 system is amazing.

    Headlight performance is unknown.

    I felt the blind spot warning indicator light in the mirrors was very dim compared to other cars I've driven so I couldn't really see it working in my peripheral vision during daytime driving, they need to fit a brighter indicator or adjust the light output via a software update. For dusk/night time driving I'm sure it's fine.

    I thought the noise level was good but hard to get a good idea on a short test drive.

    When driving I ensured the speed warning function was disabled but it still gave me an audible warning, I done a deep dive into the menus but couldn't fine another option to disable it.

    4 years AA roadside assistance included.

    The ID3 is far better looking car but for the price, space and tech this Dolphin is hard to beat.

    Design spec: €33,142 OTR @5.9% HP

    Comfort spec: €31,268 OTR @5.9% HP

    The main difference between the design and comfort was the sunroof which adds to the spacious feeling, and also dual tone paint job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭djan


    Thanks for the detailed write up. How long were you able to test it for?

    Some reviews commented on the brake regen being done in a way to simulate normal ICE driving with the first part of brake pedal using regen and the brakes only engaging once a threshold is passed. Wheel spin would have a lot to do with the probable ECO tyres which sacrifice grip for efficiency so hard to judge.

    The pedestrian warning sound is well documented and will be mandatory in EU going ahead. Thankfully, it is pretty easy to remove or quieten with a bit of DIY.

    Interesting to see interior compared to the ID3 which is a much more expensive car (and the MG4 to a lesser extent) especially when looking at the specsheet. Shame the exterior is a bit of a let down when compared to the MG4 IMO.

    The main negatives of the BYDs is the sensitive driving aids especially lane departure, how did you find that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,591 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    I see MSL are sticking with their rip off €2k 'delivery' gouge on top on the advertised brochure price with the Dolphin as well as the Atto3 - and bear in mind metallic paint is standard so that's not part of it!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭DrPsychia


    I don't know of another brand apart from Tesla that are selling for the brochure price. Toyota, VW, MG, Audi, BMW are all at it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,591 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    I get that, it's the magnitude of the gouge I have the issue with. The standard delivery rip off fee is €800 - 1000 yet MSL are lumping a whopping €2k onto the BYDs (and also including some crappy service pack). Seems to me that MSL decided that BYD's 'value' proposition was so strong that they'd exploit it by adding increased profit and hope noone notices the metallic is a free option (IIRC their Atto3 price listed included 'price includes metallic paint' or words to that effect). Problem is the price isn't really *that* cheap after the €2k is added on....



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Unfortunately that’s true. But, I say this with a big but, BMW have kinda copped on. You can go into the configuration menu online now and they have an OTR price.

    Now the but, if you go to order that exact car, select your preferred dealer, I cannot confirm if the dealer then adds their charge to it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Woodie40




  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭DrPsychia


    I had it for about 40 minutes in medium traffic.

    I would describe the regen as quite a bit weaker than 50% of its full breaking force when on high. I did test the brakes forcefully and still thought it was too soft for my liking, maybe it's just an isolated issue with that demo model. There was a software update that needed to be installed when I was driving so perhaps that might have fixed a few things.

    They were probably eco tyres judging by the grip. Had a look online and the tyre size seems to be 195/60/r16 whereas the MG4 long range is 215/50/r17 so that would partly explain the lack of grip and poor traction in the dry test drive condition.

    I know the Pedestrian warning is mandated but just felt it was a few decibels too loud.

    I thought the lane keeping aid was a bit intrusive but not OTT like when I first drove the MG4. The active cruise worked well.

    I totally agree that they messed up the exterior design of the car. If it looked more like the ID3 or the Atto/Seal it would be a a major hit.

    The Dolphins exterior reminds me of marmite or olives, you either accept the taste is tolerable or you will downright hate it.

    I'm surprised that BYD haven't ripped off matrix headlights yet for their higher end models like the Seal. Hopefully it will become available in the future as factory standard fitted. We need some manufacturer to make it an affordable optional extra or standard fit

    EDIT: I forgot to mention the rear wiper is comically small, they definitely need to make it larger



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  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭DrPsychia


    I agree it's excessive gouging, despite that when you look at the closest competition which is the MG4 long range it's still the better value proposition if you value more interior space, nicer interior finish, better technology package and better overall warranty. I'd love to know what type of margins they're making without the gouging, I wonder what established brand dealers make?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,393 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Kia are a mass market brand just like VW, Ford, Renault, Peugeot, Mazda, Nissan ,Toyota,Opel etc.

    MG are a budget brand. BYD are a budget brand. Citroen are going back to being a budget brand and FIAT the same I would say.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    That’s exactly the point I way making, the car is sold upmarket but the brand isn’t



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Woodie40


    True, when I see one, i think its the 2023 equivalent of a Russian Lada.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭djan


    Has anyone else done a test drive or considered the Dolphin? Seems like it ticks a lot of boxes but will say the dual tone colours being forced on the higher spec is a bit annoying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,393 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    So you think a Kia EV6 is the 2023 equivalent of a Russian Lada. Jeez if you think that about the EV6 what do you think about the BYD ATTO3 or SEAL or even a VW ID3? Must be bad. Maybe they are Yugos.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    This looks reasonably priced, not as obnoxiously ugly as many EVs (the Leaf still being the only car on the market that would actually make me choose a Multipla ahead of it) and crucially imo the advertised range is high enough that I'd trust it to get me from North County Dublin to Galway without needing to stop and charge.

    It's the first EV I've actually checked the dealers site for pricing. I'll still probably wait for a second hand one unless my ancient Golf gives up the ghost in the next 6 months but if I, as someone who's been sceptical of electric vehicles since they first hit the market (based on range and outlandish prices e.g. Teslas being comparably priced to a decent Mercedes/BMW ICE) am starting to look at them seriously, I reckon these could hit Octavia levels of popularity in the Irish market.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I think some people have missed Kia's attempts to move upmarket, it's been visible since the launch of the Stinger in 2018. I guess if your only looking at 15 year old cars then you'll have a very different perception of Kia's design and quality.

    As far as I know it was predicted pressure from Chinese brands that led the Koreans to move into the more premium space. I'd class them as sitting in the VW/Toyota quality at the moment, though VW seem confused and don't know where they want to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,393 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Yes I agree. It's more than likely people looking at Kias from a decade or more ago that are still stuck in the past about them.

    As far as I know it was predicted pressure from Chinese brands that led the Koreans to move into the more premium space. I'd class them as sitting in the VW/Toyota quality at the moment, though VW seem confused and don't know where they want to be.

    Yes I would say that was certainly one of there incentives but I think they have always had big goals anyway.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭derekreilly


    Irish press launch today so going to see lots of coverage over the comings days. I focused on the Comfort Trim.


    Also revealed the prices for the 2 entry level trims coming in Q2 next year with the smaller battery (44.9kWh) and prices starting at €25,570

    Aiming to have around 15 dealers around Ireland. Wexford and Waterford announced last week with Limerick, Galway and Sligo nearing contract signing.


    2 more colours also on the way too with solid black and solid white




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,434 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Jesus €25K seems a great price. Would be a decent option for a second car for many people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    What kind of real world range would a 44.9kWh battery have in one of these?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    It would be a good option for a main car for plenty of people too.

    Cars have got much bigger and a lot of people don't need one the size they have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    Real Range Estimation between 180 - 385 km

    City - Cold Weather *255 km

    Highway - Cold Weather *180 km

    Combined - Cold Weather *215 km


    City - Mild Weather *385 km

    Highway - Mild Weather *230 km

    Combined - Mild Weather *295 km



    Plenty of range for the majority of commuters.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Are those figures in anyway realistic though? I note the highway speed assumes a steady 110km/h whereas 120km/h would be more normal for Ireland and the Cold/Mild weather are real worst case/best case scenarios rather than a typical drizzly 15 degrees or so Irish day...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    120kmph is normal for many 100 to 110 is very normal for many others . Going on my driving there's a huge amount that don't want to hit the top speed limit.

    I'd say the figures are fairly accurate for the battery tech in it and the size tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    yes. most vehicles on irish motorways are driven at less than 120kph, some are driving dangerously too slow(i know as i have cruise control set at 120kph on the M8 5 days out of 7).

    the note at the bottom of the link reads...

    "Indication of real-world range in several situations. Cold weather: 'worst-case' based on -10°C and use of heating. Mild weather: 'best-case' based on 23°C and no use of A/C. For 'Highway' figures a constant speed of 110 km/h is assumed. The actual range will depend on speed, style of driving, weather and route conditions".

    The worst case rarely happens in ireland so the range would - for the vast majority of the time - be better than noted in the worst case (-10 degrees with heating).

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭grennscreener


    not to mention the extra power required (irrespective of weather its a battery or ICE'd) to get you the extra 10kph from 110 to 120 is really not worth it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Best case won't happen either, you won't be sitting in car with no aircon on at 23 degrees outside



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,434 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    I just meant the smaller battery as a smaller run around rather than the size of the car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    true. even if the city mild weather figure dropped to 300km instead of 385km (which it won't, it would likely be higher) it would still probably cover a weeks commute for the average car driver in ireland - a mix of motorway and city driving lets say (44.8km per day - CSO figure from 2019 - petrol drivers only average 33.1km per day).

    at around 30 cents per kWh (for example) to charge the battery at home would cost roughly €12 versus circa €40 for petrol to cover the same distance in my 1.0 litre ATECA.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I presume this is something you get a feel for after a few months of EV ownership but I have to admit I'm finding it quite difficult to gauge how far you can actually go on a single charge based on the vagueness of the range figures....there's quite the difference between the best and worst case scenarios of 180km and 385km!

    If the 180km worst case range for motorway driving is also based on the assumption that you'll travel at lower than the speed limit of an Irish motorway, is it possible the quoted "worst case" is actually over-estimated for normal Irish driving conditions? Or would driving at 120km/h have less impact on battery performance than the temperature variance of -10°C  and a more normal Irish 5-15°C ?

    TBH, I'm looking at this a few years early as it's unlikely I'd be in the market for a new car next year. Realistically I'm probably hoping to pick up a Seal / Dolphin or something similar second-hand in 2025/2026. I'm just trying to educate myself on how I should view range figures. The most common long journey I do (half a dozen times a year or so) is about 230km with probably 200k of that being motorway so that's kind of the minimum range I'd find acceptable for me to switch to an EV. Anything longer than that is going to be a 3 or 4 hour drive where a break to charge wouldn't be as annoying since I'd be stopping for a coffee or a bite to eat anyway....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I think you may to be fair overly concentrating on the range. You'd get a good realistic feel for the use of the models by getting in seeing what the vehicle it's telling you and having some proper test drives.

    People myself included can get mirred down in stats and facts.

    Suffice to say heavier vehicles needs over 75kwh battery to be usable for decent ranges. Lighter vehicles may get away with smaller battery sizes. Realistically the Dolphin is a city and suburb commute vehicle. Wheres as the bigger brother seal would be a distance commute.


    Drive more cars, see what the dash is telling you get a feel for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    the seal has significantly more range and could do that return journey in mild weather without stopping (if you didn't drive like a maniac)...but a short 15-20 minute stop to stick another 150km into the battery at 50kW would probably be needed for a good chunk of the year.

    driving at 120kph will increase the rate the battery discharges...you will get there quicker but will arrive with less SOC.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    @listermint TBH, Range is the key determinant for me on any purchase of an EV as, to my knowledge, it's the only real drawback of an EV when compared to an ICE car these days. Overnight charging wouldn't be an issue at the destination but I wouldn't have the patience for having to stop and re-charge half way to Galway especially when there could be a long queue for access to a charger etc.

    @ColemanY2K, yeah the Seal would definitely be the preference as the range definitely seems to meet my needs and it seems to be a nicer car all around. The talk of the Dolphin starting from around €25k had piqued my interest though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,132 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    As stated the Dolphin is a suburb city car. If you're traveling to Galway its not really that.

    The vast majority of new 75kwh plus vehicles fit your bracket use case hence I said you should not be concentrating throughly on range more on driving vehicles that fit this battery size.

    Range isn't a concern if driving a vehicle of that size to Galway the odd time and charging it there. You'll get hung up on that too much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    If you want to do that 230kms in all conditions without stopping look at something with a 58kwh battery or above, which is what the id3 has as a benchmark.

    I'd do that no problem in my 58kwh car.

    For even longer journeys look at 77kwh battery cars. But if the cars are bigger and heavier than 58kwh car, it will be slightly less efficient, but range should still be higher.

    Be tight enough in the dolphin at times I'd say in smaller battery



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    I've just travelled 43km on 100kph and 120kph roads this evening. I set cruise control to the respective speed limit and overtook 10 cars (3 on the 100kph and 7 cars on M8) and was overtaken by 2 (on M8). Those 10 were doing well below the speed limit...at least 10kph below it.

    The point I'm trying to make is that the Dolphins estimated highway range as discussed earlier today is eminently possible given the majority of drivers do not drive to the limit.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Has anyone seen this car advertised for the €25k that the reviewers are quoting?

    The brochure lists it as €29k after grants?



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