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Random Fitness Questions

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  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    Hi, could you tell me which of the 4 ab muscles this exercise I described is focusing on? I'm under the impression that it does the both obliques a lot, the transverse abs too, but that it does not do too much for the rectus abs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Planks and situps work the rectus abd.

    But this minutia is not something you need to focus on for your level of experience. Focus on those compounds I mentioned and you’ll get better results.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    I'm a 40 year old male living in East Wall. I've been a regular gym goer in the area for a while now. I'd like to hang out with other gym goers in the area, to share advice and motivation. Hit me up if interested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    @Cill94 I know the ab exercise you mean yeah.

    I found it. It's called the Cork Screw! it targets the transverse abdominis.




  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Transverse abdominals brace and compresses your core. It provides stability. It doesn't lift or rotate the pelvis like the rectus abs or oblique abs. Which is what the movement in that exercise. In short its working all the abs and not isolating the transverse abdominis significantly.

    There are ways to isolate the transverse abdominis.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    Is this what you meant to say?

    "It doesn't lift or rotate the pelvis like the rectus abs or oblique abs do... which is what the movement in that exercise does."?

    The instructor in that video said it worked the transverse abs. Is she wrong?

    And what ways are there to isolate the transverse abdominis?



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I said: "It doesn't lift or rotate the pelvis like the rectus abs or oblique abs". Which is want I meant.

    Adding "do" to the end of the sentence doesn't change anything. The second sentence should end with is, not does if you're going to be pedantic. The muscles create the movement.

    I find you response a bit strange tbh. And I'n not sure why you are obsessed with a single ab muscle. That kind of minutiae is probably not helping your training.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    I think what confused me was the fact that you put a full stop (instead of a comma) before the word 'Which', which shouldn't shouldn't have been a new sentence, which should've also had the word 'does' at the end of it!

    Anyway, is the instructor wrong? And if she is, then how do you target your transverse abs?

    I think this is what we're looking for, for training the transverse abs.


    Post edited by Rosalinda Eyes on


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    Anyone here know much about exercising the lower abs?

    Interesting video here

    And this one too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgPzOqaLO8



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    So you were confused because the below was two separate related sentences, instead of a single sentence with a comma. I'm sorry but that's pretty ridiculous.

    It doesn't lift or rotate the pelvis like the rectus abs or oblique abs. Which is what the movement...

    The exercise does target the transverse abs. I don't how to make that less confusing for you.

    But I see now you are focusing on lower abs. There is no lower ab muscle. It's an area of a single muscle. Maybe stop obsesing over youtubers who just want clicks



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭Cill94


    I think you should ignore all the advice we've given you and do exactly what the experts in these videos say. Remember to focus on minutia and avoid the basics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    That's a little uncalled for. I'm just making a few changes to my ab workout at the moment, hence the enthusiasm. I've been doing pretty much the same ab routine for the last 13 years. I'm not ignoring the advice, and more so just asking for advice.

    Do you consider these guys to be experts or not? I notice you didn't use inverted commas around the word 'experts' so perhaps you didn't mean it sarcastically. If you think they are charlatans then come on out and say it. I don't believe everything I hear if that's what you're implying, and that's why I'm asking questions. Have you watched the videos?

    I'm presume you know Jeff Cavaliere is as he's quite well known. His belly is very flat (in its relaxed state) and that's the aesthetic I desire... you don't desire that look very much and that's fine. But those exercises obviously work for him, so is he wrong in saying that they would also work for others? And there is nothing wrong with taking a bit more interest in one muscle group than another.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    It's a little cynical to imply that all youtubers just want clicks. If you started a youtube channel they could easily say the same about you. I don't know if you've watched those videos or not, but if you have, and if false information has been presented, then please tell me where.

    Whether the lower ab is a muscle or an area of single muscle is beside the point. The point is that the abs can be worked in a way that targets one part of it more than the other.

    It's quite simple; you typed "Which is what the movement in that exercise." as a single sentence. It is not a sentence, and it threw me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭Cill94


    If you think they are charlatans then come on out and say it.

    They're charlatans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    But you're not willing to point out exactly where they're lying / stretching the truth / misleading people?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Okay, sure.

    Video 1: Leg raises do work. It's not really up for debate. He's trying to make himself sound like an authority by being a contrarian.

    Video 2: Athlean X is a grifter. He, like the above guy, likes to demonise certain exercises (with no evidence to support his position) and then tell you other ones are magic or 'functional'.If you follow his channel for long enough you'll notice he actually directly contradicts himself when he starts running out of content. Him being ripped does not mean that his information is accurate or in your best interest.

    The easiest way to sell someone something is to create a problem that doesn't exist, and then sell them the solution. How well your ab training is targeting your transverse abdominus is not an actual problem for anyone but advanced trainees. The vast majority of people get abs by doing a full body strength programme with a sprinkling of ab work. Oh and do that consistently for months/years with good sleep/nutrition. Doesn't make for a great YouTube thumbnail.

    We've tried to tell you this in the interest of helping you, but you've instead ignored us and just continued to ask the same question until you get the answer you want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I’m not implying all YouTubers are click merchants. There are many informative channels. I was stating that the channels you are posting are clickbaity nonsense. Which suggests your being hooked by their nonsense.

    If you started a youtube channel they could easily say the same about you.

    If I started a channel it would likely be true also. The primary purpose of a monetised channel is views.

    Whether the lower ab is a muscle or an area of single muscle is beside the point. The point is that the abs can be worked in a way that targets one part of it more than the other.

    Far from besides the point. my point was literally that you can’t bias one end of a single muscle over the other.

    It's quite simple; you typed "Which is what the movement in that exercise." as a single sentence. It is not a sentence, and it threw me.

    It’s perfectly acceptable to have a full stop or a comma (I did miss “does” at the end). Once again, focusing on irrelevant detail and not the wider picture.

    If you think they are charlatans then come on out and say it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Jeff Cavaliere is a con artist. It's one thing to have hyperbolic posts to attract views, but Jeff goes beyond that towards actively lying about - his advice, the training he does, his performance etc. He is in very good shape, that is the product of being a bit strong, and very lean. His defined abs are due to low body fat, not exercise selection. He is also unquestionably on performance enhancing drugs. If you really what to replicate his training, that will be the biggest gap.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Low body fat is probably the number one factor for visible abs, more than anything else.

    I have known heroin users, who never set foot in a gym, with "great abs" i.e visible and defined abs (Not a recommended approach..).

    I also think there's a genetic component, some individuals, and maybe even communities, also seem predisposed more than others to achieving them more easily.

    A flat stomach is, to me, easier to achieve than visible, defined abs. The later often seem to require that extra significant push into single digit body fat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    Thanks,

    So the Dr Gains guy (who's abs certainly don't look as good as Jeff's) is saying that the abs merely function as core stabilisers during leg raises, which is completely untrue? He seems to imply that the hip flexors do 90% of the work. Am I right in saying that this pelvic tilt (at the end of the motion) does NOT target the lower part of the rectus abdominis (when hanging), any more than doing leg raises with the legs only getting up to 90 degrees?

    But surely there is some sort of difference between doing leg raises while bringing your legs up just 90 degrees, and doing them in such a way that you're bringing your feet go so far up that they'd be over your head? The pelvic tilt must surely make some bit of difference to something? These charlatans aren't just copying each other... they must have picked up this idea from somewhere. In fact from the videos of Jeff's that I've seen, the viewer is given many options. Where as the other guy seems to say that you have to do it my way... he therefore disagrees with Athlean-X ab recommendations.

    Charlatans as they may be, I don't really see how a casual exerciser could come of any harm from trying their exercises. After all it would be keeping a person active, rather than not, which is what counts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    The Dr gains guy seems like more of a charlatan to me. He's saying that you have to do this very very specific exercise in order to target your abs properly. You've seen what he said from 6:20 in that video? about studies having shown that different factors affect the region of muscle grown within a muscle.

    So Jeff's lying about the training he does as well as taking performance enhancers. He exercise routine might actually be quite simple, instead doing all these specific isolation exercises??

    His defined abs may be to lower body fat more so than exercise selection. However, it's the fact that his lower abs are not only defined, but very far in! And don't tell me he's sucking his stomach in the whole time during those 5 minute presentations he gives.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Why don't you just go off and try these various approaches out for yourself: Take before and after pictures, measure your waist, and see what happens. Report back in 6 months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭Cill94


    So the Dr Gains guy (who's abs certainly don't look as good as Jeff's)... His defined abs may be to lower body fat more so than exercise selection. However, it's the fact that his lower abs are not only defined, but very far in!

    You are going to get really easily fed bullshit and end up spinning your wheels if this is how you assess who's an authority online.

    Am I right in saying that this pelvic tilt (at the end of the motion) does NOT target the lower part of the rectus abdominis (when hanging), any more than doing leg raises with the legs only getting up to 90 degrees?

    I teach clients to tuck their pelvis on hanging leg and knee raises because yes, it does increase the work on the abs. That's not the same thing as saying leg raises don't work.

    Charlatans as they may be, I don't really see how a casual exerciser could come of any harm from trying their exercises. After all it would be keeping a person active, rather than not, which is what counts.

    You're moving the goal posts from 'is this useful advice' to 'will it directly stop someone from exercising' ? This is a sign you don't want your mind changed so I'm not going to try.

    I get that you're confused, but at a certain point you need to just pick a source of information and run with it long enough to make your own mind up. It sounds like you inherently want to believe the likes of Athlean, so maybe you need to dive balls in and stop asking for a certainty you simply won't get in fitness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    @Cill94 I teach clients to tuck their pelvis on hanging leg and knee raises because yes, it does increase the work on the abs. That's not the same thing as saying leg raises don't work.

    But what he said is true about PPT during leg raises, not only targeting the abs more than the hip flexors, but specifically the the lower section of the abs more than the upper???



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    That study doesn't show that lower abs grow more. It was studying innervation l signals not growth. And its quite vague in terms methodology, results, etc.

    There a much more detailed study from McGill. That shows when you control for muscle length, rom. There not a significance difference.

    And most importantly none of that has any effect oc burning belly fat.

    So Jeff's lying about the training he does as well as taking performance enhancers.

    Yes. The first point is well documented. He was exposed for using fake weights in his videos.

    The second point common sense.

    He exercise routine might actually be quite simple, instead doing all these specific isolation exercises??

    No idea what you are asking here.

    His defined abs may be to lower body fat more so than exercise selection. However, it's the fact that his lower abs are not only defined, but very far in! And don't tell me he's sucking his stomachs in the whole time during those 5 minute presentations he gives

    I pretty clearly only said definition was due to his bf% . The hollow look is separate, but has nothing to do with his rectus abdominus, or activating the lower section.

    The core being compressed is the transverse abdominis - as I told you a month ago. And as I also said, It can be trained, but not with that leg raise exercise you posted. Look at bodybuilders posing on stage



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    Look, you probably know what I'm going to ask you next... how does he get the 'hollow' look? It is from doing the vacuum? and is doing the vacuum the only way to target the transverse abdominis in isolation? Are you saying that the more you suck in your stomach the more likely it is to end up closer to being in that position in its relaxed sate?

    @Mellor I pretty clearly only said definition was due to his bf% .

    I know you pretty clearly said definition was due to bf... I was just asking a different question.

    @Mellor There a much more detailed study from McGill. That shows when you control for muscle length, rom. There not a significance difference.

    You did it again; that first full stop (after McGill) should not be there! You also mean to say "there's" and not "there"!

    It is not perfectly acceptable to have either a comma or a full stop... you might get away with having a comma in place of a full stop, but not a full stop in place of a comma.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Look, you probably know what I'm going to ask you next... how does he get the 'hollow' look?

    You’ve ignored every piece of advice you been given. Do you honestly expect people to keep wasting their time trying to help you?

    You did it again; that first full stop (after McGill) should not be there!

    LMFAO I don’t know what’s worse, the fact you are attempting this pedantry, or the fact you are not even correct.

    A full stop is perfectly fine there. They are two separate sentences. In that context “that” is a pronoun not a conjunction - It’s a substitute for the study. Which requires a comma, not that.

    Regardless, I don’t for a second believe that the full stop meant you didn’t understand the sentences. But much more important to focus on minute grammar than actually training.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,595 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Sealioning is the new training.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    That was what I was thinking of!

    It reminds me a little bit of the arguments that used to come up with Mark Moto a while back, some of those were great. I think about nutrition and supplements?



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Rosalinda Eyes


    Pronoun or not you can't just say "That study shows when you control for muscle length, range of motion". That's incomplete. Just to give an example; if the sentence were "That study shows when you control for muscle length, that the range of motion increases" then that's complete. But you leave the reader confused as to whether it is a pronoun or not.

    I think this is what you meant to say:

    That [study] shows when you control for muscle length, rom, there's not a significance difference.

    Or better yet

    There's a much more detailed study from McGill that shows when you control for muscle length and rom, that there's not a significance difference.

    Stop putting full stops where they don't need to be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I said above left the ‘s off accidentally. I reply on my phone, it’s not ideal. But you getting distracted as usual. You under the point, why are you getting sidetracked by a typos?

    It’s not going to help up improve your abs workout that you’re obsessing over. But feel free to continue to be sidetracked by minutia, youtube, and grammar. The rest of us will at the gym.



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