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Energy infrastructure

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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    This is untrue. All or almost all of the natural gas plants are capable of burning a second fuel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You can buy LNG, have it delivered to a UK LNG degasification plant and have it shipped to Ireland. There is a rate card for this. In practice it may make more sense to sell your cheaply obtained LNG gas at a profit in England and buy gas that is already in Scotland to ship to Ireland but that is neither here nor there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    We have corrib for another 6.5 years and as far as I remember permission for further exploration there has been ruled out or will more than likley by ruled out by the department.

    As you say in a further post we have ZERO NG storage which is bananas in a country that uses a high percentage of NG for generating electricity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Are you sure about this.

    According to an Eirgrid itinerary (I posted this on a different thread a while ago) generators that are capable of burning both are classed as NG/DO (natural gas/distillate oil).

    Not all NG generators are NG/DO in that doc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    capt’n have you a link that proves oil is stored at all NG plants?

    That would be pretty nice to see actually.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    That schedule is not comprehensive if you look up information about the individual generating stations.

    There are obligations on gas generators, ie https://cruie-live-96ca64acab2247eca8a850a7e54b-5b34f62.divio-media.com/documents/CER15213-Review-of-Fuel-Stock-Obligations.pdf



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “The state should have a strategic national energy agency, which could also own backup storage itself”

    We already have National Oil Reserves Agency (NORA) and they have oil storage. That agency could/should be extended to gas/hydrogen/biomethane.

    “We have corrib for another 6.5 years and as far as I remember permission for further exploration there has been ruled out or will more than likley by ruled out by the department.”

    Corrib is the reason we don’t currently need gas storage facility. As it winds down, then we can use it as a gas storage facility like we did with Kinsale when it winded down.

    Our security of gas supply never has been stronger than it is today. 20 years ago it was much worse, we got 98% of the gas from the UK and there was only one interconnector. Today we have Corrib and three interconnectors to the UK (one to Northern Ireland).

    Yes we do need to make plans for going forward as Corrib runs out, however the situation really isn’t as dire as some folk are making out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So is there a plan to use corrib as a gas storage facility as corrib sown gas runs out?

    I haven’t heard anything about this but it would be a great idea alright.



  • Posts: 0 Gage Raspy Renter


    It’s speculation, and Kinsale head was used for that purpose for a while. It’s now proposed to use it for hydrogen storage in a venture with ESB.

    As for the comments about Ireland being too small for LNG facilities. There are 7 million people on this island. That’s bigger than Finland by almost 2 million and it has two such terminals ans proximity to Norway.

    Sweden has 3 and is also able to interconnect to Norway … and none of those countries are hugely dependent on gas like we are!



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  • Posts: 0 Gage Raspy Renter


    They can all burn distillate, which is basically kerosine that’s close to aviation fuel, just with a fancy name.

    Getting large volumes of that isn’t all that simple though. It’s not simpler fuel oils.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “As for the comments about Ireland being too small for LNG facilities. There are 7 million people on this island. That’s bigger than Finland by almost 2 million and it has two such terminals ans proximity to Norway.”

    Finlands two LNG terminals only opened in the past year, the new FSRU just a few months ago. Before that almost all their gas came by pipe from Russia. The FSRU was rushed in for obvious reasons.

    Also while they are near Norway, they actually have no direct connection to the Norway gas pipes. Though they now have an indirect one with the opening of the Baltic Interconnector.

    Worth noting that unlike us, they have no operating gas fields.

    So overall, quite a different scenario. They were fully reliant on Russian piped gas and had to rush off it at the outbreak of the war and given them joining NATO now.

    BTW This Finnish floating LNG terminal is an interesting example for us to look at. Planning started in June 2022 and it was in place just 6 months later, January 2023. Shows how quick you can get a FSRU in place of there is a sudden emergency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah I’ve seen this before from the owners of corrib but I also seem to remember someone linking to an article saying this wouldn’t be allowed under current government policy.

    I could be remembering this incorrectly though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    With the Russians actively surveying everything on the sea floor in Europe related to energy infrastructure and telecoms, including off the Irish coast very recently, anyone who thinks there would be an the time or opportunity to build or add storage is delusional if sea-floor infrastructure failed suddenly. ABP and the way it operates means you don't 'just' anything in this country.

    A submarine fibre cable to the Shetlands was recently cut in two places. How a fishing vessel managed to be in two places at the same time wasn't part of the official explanation.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    If you pump hydrogen in then you'll displace some of the residual gas so what you get back out will be a mix with less emissions than natural gas and more energy per cubic meter than hydrogen. Also means you can use in existing turbines

    We've got till 2050 to become carbon neutral.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "With the Russians actively surveying everything on the sea floor in Europe related to energy infrastructure and telecoms, including off the Irish coast very recently, anyone who thinks there would be an the time or opportunity to build or add storage is delusional if sea-floor infrastructure failed suddenly. ABP and the way it operates means you don't 'just' anything in this country."

    The problem with this line of thinking, is that if they are willing to blow stuff up, it would be trivial for them to also blow up a FSRU. Also nothing stopping them sinking LNG ships in the Atlantic.

    The only solution to this extremely unlikely scenario if to speed up the deployment of wind/solar/hydorgen/biomethane. The fact that we would be generating them ourselves and they are highly decentralised means it would be extremely difficult to attack enough to make a difference.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Big announcement from Orsted, a planned 400MW of solar projects for Ireland between now and 2030




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Sinking LNG ships would be an outright act of war, whereas mysterious explosions on the sea floor that interupt vital infrastructure wouldn't as there is next to no way to prove attribution, as has been proved with the Nodstream explosions.

    The Russians are unlikely to bother with starting WW3 by messing with on-shore infrastructure or shipping. You can't speed up wind or solar without getting rid of ABP, which I am all for.

    Got to laugh when Irish natives talk of speeding up infrastructure deployment. Only places like Australia can do that. One year from a statewide blackout in South Australia to them switching on the worlds largest grid connected battery. You'd be lucky to manage it in one decade here.

    Why do you copy paste quote instead of clicking the quote post button?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Sinking LNG ships would be an outright act of war, whereas mysterious explosions on the sea floor that interupt vital infrastructure wouldn't as there is next to no way to prove attribution, as has been proved with the Nodstream explosions."

    Frankly so would blowing up not one, but three interconnectors between UK and Ireland. One is accident, three would be an obvious act of war. Nordstream was a bit different as it was owned by the Russians anyway and was already shutdown.

    Since Nordstream, pretty much all Russian vessels are being closely tracked by NATO vessels, frankly they wont get away with it again.

    And anyway, why would they even target our interconnectors? If they are going to do that, the more obvious target would be the gas interconnectors in the North sea, between Norway and mainland Europe and Scotland or between Britain and mainland Europe. The point would be to try and disrupt the European wide gas market. Hitting the Irish interconnectors would have almost no impact on the wider European market.

    Plus we do have a backup for now, Corrib. And there is no reason we can't use it in future if needed.

    "Why do you copy paste quote instead of clicking the quote post button?"

    Because I HATE the new boards commenting system, in the old system you could comment on individual lines, the new commenting system is frankly just dumb.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,305 ✭✭✭prunudo


    "Why do you copy paste quote instead of clicking the quote post button?"


    Because I HATE the new boards commenting system, in the old system you could comment on individual lines, the new commenting system is frankly just dumb.

    OT but I use the web version on the mobile and when wanting to quote part of a post I do like so. There is symbol to the left of the text box and if you click on it, it gives the option to insert a quoted/copied section



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is symbol to the left of the text box and if you click on it, it gives the option to insert a quoted/copied section

    OT also, but I'll use both like this, the quote button (as this flags to the quoted person they have been quoted) and the additional functionality you highlight (to call out a specific line or section)



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Thanks to the both of you for the tips.

    OT but I use the web version on the mobile and when wanting to quote part of a post I do like so. There is symbol to the left of the text box and if you click on it, it gives the option to insert a quoted/copied section

    Like this? Thanks I hadn't seen this quote option before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Thats an awful lot of electricity for compressing, a hell of a lot of hydrogen wasted considering its the most likely element to leak or disapate , and you've got to make the hydrogen in the first place

    Thats effectively "cushion gas " you add inatural gas at mains pressure ,when the gas is cheap ,and let it out again when its expensive, you loose some along the way

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I'm still ify about solar for ireland , its a private enterprise , that get a subvention only for power produced , which is fine

    But all of the schemes are fixed panels (i assume orientated south ) with no battery storage - so obviously mid day - mid summer is peak production - no incentive to try spread electricity production over a summers day , which mid-summer is 18ish hours long ...

    Or does the amounts of solar power being proposed for the grid not really make a difference?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Is there any reason for the large disparity in the forecast versus actual wind generation for yesterday and today? Other times when I looked at it, I thought the forecast was much closer.




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,013 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Could be wrong here but some of this could come down to gustyness of the wind as the generators aren't able to convert gusts into power effectively, so while on a spreadsheet you'd have met.ie forecasting winds of 45kmph and Eirgrid calculate off that speed, the gusty nature of that wind would mean that the blades are either inhibited or can't spin-up in that type of air flow.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The latest on the energy security review, its due in a few weeks and looks set to recommend a FSRU for the country




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Though NOT a commercial FSRU, a government owned one used for storage and backup only.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, would make it a whole lot easier to wind it down



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