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RWC 2023 Ireland v South Africa Buildup - Sat 23rd Sep 20:00 Paris

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    I think the SA management is looking at it this way, more or less sure of a quarter final already. Win or lose, it will be France or NZ in the next round, so both are going to be tough games. This is their last chance to experiment with the 7-1 split, cant still be experimenting in the next phase of the tournament.

    Looking ahead, Ireland has the advantage of only playing their last game against Scotland 6 days after SA's last game. If they win this match and SA win against Tonga, then theres nothing left to play for against Scotland (except pride, of course). Lose this match and SA win against Tonga then they will still already know who they play in the quarters if they win/lose the Scotland game.

    This isnt a make or break game for either team. (I may regret this statement in a week or 2).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Ah. Yes. Didnt have my Maths head on this morn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭techdiver


    A massive perk if Ireland actually win this weekend will hopefully be the death of this dumb phrase "The Bomb Squad". It's a juvenile, NFL (I do actually like NFL though) style load of crap and is getting tedious hearing every bloody pundit use it time and time again.

    Also, if we are to be accurate, a bomb squads actual job is to defuse a device, not add to it's explosive power, so it doesn't even make any fuckin sense in the first place.

    /rant



  • Registered Users Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    "Also, if we are to be accurate, a bomb squads actual job is to defuse a device, not add to it's explosive power, so it doesn't even make and fuckin sense in the first place."

    😂 I never considered this before, very true!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    For me it's more make or break for SA than Ireland.

    If Ireland win and South Africa don't get a bonus point, then they are reliant on the result of the Ireland/Scotland game to get through.

    If Ireland lose then they still have destiny in their own hands.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    There is a big difference between Smith being comfortable on the wing because he played 7s and having to play there for a significant portion of an international game against the world no.1. Having him on the wing will limit their kick case and he'd seriously struggle with positioning. There would be opportunities there to exploit, doubly so if Kolbe was also at FB.

    I'd love to see Smith up against Hansen, his head would be wrecked as Hansen isn't on his wing half the time. It's one thing to defend on the wing when you just stand near the sideline and watch the opposite winger, completely different task if the wing keeps going infield and you don't know what to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    That would another fitting way of showing up the ridiculously unbalanced selection from the unbalanced selectors.

    Obvious selection to focus on ruck and line speed.

    Fourie, Smith and van Staden all turnover specialist off the bench.

    https://x.com/oom_rugby/status/1704372493060898993?s=46&t=LZNAt8uQdNSsqynXTsT0dw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Watching and reading all the previews of the game it seems it's all about South Africa. Maybe that's a good thing for Ireland. I get a patronising tone from pundits (especially from the southern hemisphere) regarding Ireland. They always refer to us as the worlds number 1 team but with an undertone of us just being custodians until the big boys restore the natural order.

    Maybe the attitude is fair. We have never performed against a big team when under any expectations at a world cup. Apart from the heroics in 1991, we can point to the Australia win in 2011, but we were massive underdogs that day, so not under any real pressure. The only other win of note at a world cup was against a poor France team in 2015. Unfortunately this is our history at world cups. it is very grim reading.

    Now is the time to step up and make a statement in my opinion. I believe we will win this game. I also think/hope that the 7/1 split will backfire on South Africa at some stage. I keep hearing about how great and versatile all the South African players are but there is no substitute for specialist positions. I see Kwagga being held up as a man that can play anywhere and the evidence for that is he played 7's. Now, come on. Playing 7's is like a totally different sport to potentially coming in on the wing or at centre in a World Cup against a good team.

    Whilst sounding over simplified, all Ireland need to do is close to break even at the breakdown and set piece. Without that South Africa have shown nothing to make me believe they can win without sheer forward dominance (I know it has been enough thus far). I'm going over to the game and I am equally excited and unbelievably nervous. The one thing I want from Ireland though is to play to their potential. If they do that and lose to a better team then fair play. Too often in World Cups "good" Irish teams have completely capitulated and that would just be another disaster if that were to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    True, the 1 extra point is a nice to have at the moment going into this game. I still would expect Ireland to beat Scotland, and SA to beat Tonga, which leaves both teams safe regardless of this weekend's result. In my mind this game just decides who plays France or NZ in the next round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,182 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The Indo is reporting from Ireland pre-match press conference. Simon Easterby says Ireland most likely going with a 5/3 split for Saturday. It's the right call imo. We shouldn't change our plans just because South Africa are trying something different.

    Jack Conan isn't available. Hopefully he's back for the Scotland game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Definitely the right call. If we had gone for 6/2 it would have made a statement that South Africa were in our heads and we don't trust our own game plan.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    South Africa have said they are doing something unorthodox specifically to counter our game. So you could understand a rethink by Ireland if that made the most sense, but I'm of half a mind that SA will field a different 23 to the one posted so for that reason alone I would look to impose our game rather than focusing too much on countering what they may do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,402 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I wonder is the 7 forwards subs being a bit overstated, one of the extras is a second row, not sure how much that’s going to sway things, same for the extra back row. It’s two extra pairs of fresh legs up front which while nice isn’t exactly game changing. It’s a high risk move with the poor cover it gives out back and I’m not sure the payoff is close to enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Exactly, there's no one on the bench who could break a game open if they're trailing.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It definitely has been overstated.

    As has been shown by other posts earlier in the thread , the impact of the 7-1 bench in the NZ game is vastly overstated.

    NZ were playing terribly and were down to 14/13 players at various stages in the game.

    The game was long won before SA brought on their bench.

    It may have been a consolation score , but NZ had their best period of the game after that SA bench came on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,402 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Yeah I was thinking that, late on if I was chasing a score I’d want a fresh set of legs in the centre over in the second row



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Indeed - If they don't manage to get the forward dominance they are clearly going for , what then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭SaoPaulo41


    Etzebeth will pull out and Pollard will move to subs bench , can definitely see it happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭farmerval


    There's also the fact that the extra two forwards are far from their best. E.G assuming they change both second rows, the extra one is the fourth best available, unlikely to be a world beater, similarly the extra back row will be the fifth choice back row of those currently available.

    If SA have only one back on the bench, can they bring him on before say the 75th minute, in case of injuries? Meaning the entire set of backs will have to effectively play the full game. What if one of the backs has a stinker?

    Virtually every team changes their halves and one other back during a game to freshen up the pivotal positions.

    I feel this is all about Rassie trying to make it all abut Rassie, like his traffic lights. Imagine him taking over as director of rugby here, he couldn't help himself getting front and centre on everything. Wouldn't be surprised if they change their bench make up because of an injury before the game,



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    But there’s real merit in Hendo to start, Beirne to 6, POM to 7 with McCarthy and VDF on the bench.

    Possibly merit to this but personally think it’s unlikely they’ll go with both McCarthy and VDF on the bench as neither have really been jumpers, so can’t see them bringing them both on for the final 20-25 minutes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,269 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Then they come 2nd and face France, is rassie making a calculated risk call to use us to experiment because he sees France or NZ as 2 sides of the same coin of difficulty despite the opening result?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    In Rugby, it's not a matter of This team is better than that team, so we should beat that team comfortably

    it's about matchups.

    Rock Paper Scissors. Some teams are just better at countering Ireland's strengths

    The Springboks are a different type of team to that French team and are going big on size in the pack with speed on the outside

    If SA can prevent Ireland from winning quick ball, and if they can handle our probing kicks along the tram lines, and if they can handle our lineout, then they'll be a very difficult team to beat



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'm hoping to see us really attack their lineout with Ryan and POM. Could probably manage to throw up both of them easily enough, put their hooker under a lot of pressure.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Certainly if/when they replace Mbonambi I'd be throwing POM up at 2 on every ball just to pressure the thrower and force them into the more difficult longer throws.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭the.red.baron


    I think people are putting to much staid in the NZ SA warm up game



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭the.red.baron


    say what

    would we take more out of the england argentina game vs the SA argentina game from only a few months ago

    when one team isn't at the races, like in a warm up game, you get that result

    it was meaningless



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    What exactly does this phrase mean " putting to much staid in " ?

    Did you mean too much importance/significance?

    As in "paying too much heed to"? or "putting too much stock in"?

    Post edited by Jump_In_Jack on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    This is what makes this game great.

    The speculation, the discussions. Everyone looking at the stats and recent history, comparing, trying to determine which team has the edge, or which team might win and why. Picking apart every selection in each position.

    World number 1 vs World Number 2 and current World Champions.

    I dont think 2 teams could get any closer on paper than these 2 teams are at the moment. Either team can win it on the day. I hope both teams show up and its a close contested game.

    The fans deserve as much.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,182 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It may have already been mentioned here, but I don't think we should be overly concerned by South Africa loading their bench with forwards. They're going to be a massive physical threat, but Ireland will be prepared for it.

    In the test match last November, Ireland were never comfortable against South Africa, but contained their threat well enough until Wille LeRoux was subbed in. After that Ireland couldn't just focus on the collision based aspects of South Africa's game, but also their playmaking. He changed the game and made them much more threatening. I think they're missing a step by not having him in the squad, even if he's been a bit iffy performance wise.



This discussion has been closed.
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