Disability Payments Review

its subscription only Dempo1 will keep my eyes peeled to see who else picks up the story.

I’d be interested to know if you get a stamp for the new proposed scheme or only on certain tiers or what.

My guess is this will be used to cut the increasing disability claims(that somewhat goes with the increasing population and aging demo) and like the UK unless your level 3 you will pushed to workforce. Means testing is a question too for joint scheme as Invalidity Pension is paid for life(regardless of means) while DA is means tested.

Some of us are working in the present system. I was going to say ‘Plenty’ of us but that might not be accurate. It took me years to find suitable employment with an understanding employer and it happened with the help of the employability service. Any jobs I applied for in the normal way came to nothing when I disclosed I had health problems which I felt it was necessary to do to find the right post for me.

I'd say it is more including those with disabilities in society. It's shown that poverty is rampant for those in receipt of DA, this could be a push for claimants to do work/education/something for themselves to lead more meaningful lives. Gawd that sounds soo Tory.

The other reason it is happening imo is because of welfare tourism from the rest of EU, even with the habitual residence clause, it is noticeably happening.

It kinda makes sense for a long time we had a lot of people especially young people being signed off almost permanently,based off having a bad back or similar, while it's gotten more difficult to get it's still can be gotten by someone who might not be so honest about their health situation, I seem to remember when they brought new assesments in the UK something like 1 million people ( open to correction)came off disability payments before the medical reassessments began ,

I personally believe if your able to work it should absolutely encouraged, I'd rather see a bigger cut between tiers your , while keeping a medical card depending on the medical condition/s

I know of Similar case's where a child at 16 got DA based off an autism diagnosis I know the perticular lad , while he's on the spectrum he's doing his leaving this year as he's only moderate the spectrum,but at as you said others have to fight tooth and nail to get their children their benefits they are entitled to , we don't make things easy those who are most in need,

But how do you deal with the likes of those who got DA when it was a lot easier with say something like depression,I can't work because I have depression is not something that should be a thing, there needs to be honest engagement with people ,but how do they go about it without upsetting various groups

New model if adopted would mean level 3 would be essentially the same as jobseekers....

Is this coming in any time soon?

How would things change for someone on IP with a diagnosed terminal condition?

Thanks i could do without the stress of it.

If implemented, the plan seems to be to move all existing claimants over to the new system over a period of about five years.

But yes, it's just a discussion document for the moment. The public consultation on this is open until December 15th.

I think the fact there's been increases in the thousands of people being awarded, DA the bill is 1.4 billion per year now and increasing, I'd take disability out of the title too ,that itself suggest it's a permanent situation,but not everyone on DA is permanently disabled and unable to ever work again,I can't see them going after an older cohort of people

It was definitely easier people could apply and get it in weeks where as now people from my personal experiences could be looking at 12-18 months to get a decision due to the Amount of medical documentation required to back up a claim now where before it was signed off by your gp now you need specialists and consultants backing your claim,

Which doesn't make sense considering the increases over the last few years,I get the feeling COVID may have had some kind of knock on effect

I've no idea about claims today, but I'd expect more then a gp signin a few boxes for a long term claim.

I'm not directly impacted by this but I really hope the idea of anything similar to the UK isn't entertained. I have a lot of engagement with people with disabilities around the world, so that's the perspective I'm coming from.

In the UK, people are regularly reassessed for their "level" by people who often have no experience of the condition that person is dealing with, and they generally don't bother to request information from GP/Consultants etc. who are actually familiar with the individual. Someone can be assessed as being on one end of the "level" system and then reassessed and found to be on the other end with no change in condition or ability - the only change is the person conducting the assessment. People who have long term, life limiting conditions requiring full time care are routinely reassessed.

If the problem is actually that people who feel they could work are afraid they'll lose their payment, why not set up a scheme that anyone on disability can avail of that supports them going to work. We all know "invited to engage" is likely to mean pressurised or forced to engage under threat of losing payment, and the added stress that causes can have a detrimental impact on a persons health. The vast majority of people want to work if they are able, particularly with income being a big issue. Something similar to sick pay could be done where the disability payment goes via the employer while the person is working, and if they are later unable to work they immediately revert to receiving their payment directly.

I notice the Green Paper says that we have a lower number of people with disabilities in the workforce, but then a little note that we have a lower number of people with disabilities overall. That means we may have people with disabilities in the workforce who just aren't classified as having a disability here but would be elsewhere. So the problem that they are proposing a solution to probably isn't a problem.

I'd also be curious about how healthcare plays a role. How many people are experiencing disability as a result of being left waiting for the healthcare they need? How does that compare to the rest of the EU? How many extra staff would be required to implement such a system? How many of them would be healthcare staff who are needed far more in our hospitals? What is the real cost versus benefit? What are the potential harms to those people most impacted?

I note Cherry Blossom mentioned how difficult it was finding an employer who offered suitable employment. Perhaps this is something that needs to be looked at, more investment in training and helping employers provide reasonable accommodations to those who need them. In some cases people apply for disability after a great deal of struggle coping in the workforce - maybe dealing with the issue at the source would help.

Sorry that's such a long rant, but I think it's important to offer thoughts and insights. Might give other people some thoughts or ideas and encourage submissions for/against the idea with different solutions.

I will be making a submission myself.

Like most things the devil is in the detail. The disregards are good but If you are living with another person also on disability or another means tested allowance the new income will affect them as well. Means tests are based on household income not just the means of the individual. Medical cards are also assessed on income. This does and will lead to the grey areas in eligibility for the medical card. Travel pass is only of use if there is dependable accessible public transport available. In most places in this country (Including urban areas) that is not the case if you are a wheelchair user.

Well the proposal is for requiring some people on disability to take up training and employment - likely something similar to JobPath. I'm saying that instead of forcing people onto such schemes which can actually be detrimental to a persons health, we provide training and supports that people can opt in to if they are able. Encouraging and supporting people generally has better outcomes than forcing them. And there are probably many instances where people are unaware of what is available, maybe localised email mailing lists that advise people of training and supports in their area. Think occupational therapy type support as opposed to "work here or lose your payment". Help people to identify what accommodations they need in order to succeed in the workplace.

I think you maybe meant to link to the EmployAbility scheme, which requires being job ready. Maybe some people aren't or don't quite feel job ready but would like to be and feel that they could be - what other supports could be added? How many employers engage with that service? Why don't more of them engage? Why don't more people engage? What are the experiences like for those people and how could it be improved? I don't know all of the answers to those things, but if this problem exists then obviously whatever is currently in place isn't working as intended and more is needed. Some people might think the solution should be forcing people into the work force, but having seen the impacts this has on people, I disagree.

According to the article The Department believes up to half of those on disability payments would be in the level 3 category and that they "would like to work but are precluded from seeking employment as they could lose their payment". If we take the quoted at face value, why do they need to be required to enter the workforce? Surely changing the system so that the fear is removed, where payment is immediately restored if someone later cannot remain in the workforce, would align as a better solution given the claim.

The UK system isn't fit for purpose. It is designed around the idea that making it as difficult as possible to apply for and receive support prevents people gaming the system, when in fact the people who would game the system have the energy to jump through hoops, while the majority of applicants who are genuinely disabled don't have that same energy. Those most in need are punished and harmed by such a system.

What is actually being proposed here is forcing half of people on disability payments into the workforce with a medical card. The increase is much needed and I'm sure would be very welcomed, but the rest of it is a horrific idea. In the UK, 90 people a month die after being deemed fit for work (what we're proposing as level 3). Research has linked the work capability assessment with 600 suicides over 3 years. (Sorry, can't post links yet, but it's not hard to find)

This really isn't a system we should be mirroring. If half of those on disability would like to work, why not ask them directly what would help enable them to do so? An anonymous survey of those on disability so people don't fear being penalised - do you feel you could engage in the workforce, to what degree, what supports would help you to do so? I somehow doubt many will answer that being forced is what they need.

Agree wholeheartedly PineappleSoup.

At a very basic level, why not ask people what supports they need to improve their lives? For some it might be greater access to OT so they can be helped to manage the basic activities of daily living, which aren't always easy if you have a chronic and exhausting condition. For others it might be access to part time or online third level education, with grants for fees- not just generic one size fit all courses. And many other things.

The UK system is likely to get worse, as their government is seeking to drastically reduce the numbers in the support group, which would be group 1 under the proposals here. Just because someone is severely disabled doesn't mean that they will always be protected under a system like this.

More information about the latest aspect of benefits reform consultation in the UK:

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/consultation-on-slashing-support-group-launched-by-dwp