Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

@loco_scolo good idea about greenways and gradual improvement of the branch lines, but I get a feeling that for the Limerick and Galway lines the 3km double-track sections on single-track stretches would be not much less expensive than just double-tracking the lot. For Limerick, you'd have two or three such passing loops, each of which would need points at the diverge and merge sides, which means more signalling on the line, plus the 9km of doubling. That's against just laying 30 km more track and dispensing with the need for extra points and signals.

Not being smart, but what's your point? Greenways have never been build to protect new road alignments, for a number of reasons. Mainly, roads have generally "gotten" built, so protecting future alignments has never been necessary.

There simply isn't enough funds, or funds simply won't be made available, to build half of what's in the AIRR, at least not for a few decades.

Greenways could be developed, and routes protected, for a fraction of the cost of actually building rail lines and all the associated infrastructure.

I am a beneficiary of the WRC, but I fully accept this point.

Something outside the west would be a great help to rail travel in the west.

Unfortunately, this would be a hard sell.

Preserving a clear alignment is not redundant. There are numerous examples around the country where broad "route corridors" have kept people in planning limbo for years. And now it looks like some of those roads will never be built, but people home/land owners will likely still be kept in limbo.

An article from yesterday's independent highlighting the shameful neglect of our rail network. Just goes to show the mountain of work needed across the country to address the issue.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/stop-closing-train-lines-and-stations-ireland-spent-six-times-more-on-roads-than-railways-over-last-three-decades/a686670164.html

We needed to upgrade our roads but I think a 6 to 1 ratio is shameful and considering our awareness of climate change to state that is not "over-done". Historical neglect is one thing but spending the same amount on one runway LAST YEAR year than the entire railway network betweem 2016-2020 seems negligent to me.

Europe has a much more extensive rail network already in place so it's a pretty weak argument to compare our progress on that basis.

That is total nensense. Ireland has invested very little in rail over the past decade or so, but talking of "the whole of the 20th and 21st century" - give me a break.

So no large ICR fleet? And the 2900s on the Maynooth line, while not exactly cuttung edge are not as bad as you describe them. THey do have AC, by the way.

And no replacement of virtually all track with CWR? And no virtually total transition from old mechanical signalling?

Take a look at Intercity frequency and journey times to Cork, Waterford, Galway etc: no improvement?

I know a lot of new investment is needed,, but there is no need to be so totally negative and to ingore what has been done over the last 4o years or more.

"The train to Cork was faster in 1970" Really? I don't have 1970s timetables in fron of me, but you are talking about a period when line speeds were 75 mph max, when rolling stock was similarly limited, and when there were no 071s (never mind even more monern equipment).

So are you seriously saying that trains limited to 75 mph hauled by a pair of 141s were achieving faster times than to-day;s 100pmh trains?

I know Irish Railways need greater investment, but don't be so totally negative about what has beeen done thse last decades.

They invested nothing in motorways in the 19th century.

In areas where both a new road and new railway are proposed, is it worth buying one strip of land wide enough for both a railway and road and building both on it, paralleling each other? I'm not an expert on road or railway engineering, but I would expect what I've just described to work out as cheaper than building a new road and new railway separately, because I'd expect less land overall to be required. I'd also expect that less bridges would need to be built, since each road that would cross both the railway and new road would need just one bridge to cross them if they're right beside each other, but two separate bridges if they're further apart, so that would probably save money. I might still be completely wrong.

I would say that a largely straight strip of land would need to be bought however, and the part of the land for the railway would need to be flattened, because railways need to be straight, so this makes it harder to find a suitable route for both modes, and so this could make it unfeasible.

I'm not sure if this has ever been done before, but I was on a railway in Amsterdam from the airport to the central station that looked like it might've been built together with a motorway(the A4 just east of schiphol airport if you want to look on Google maps). There is also a railway from Athens to Corinth that also looks like it was built together with a motorway. I've no idea if either are an example of what I'm talking about though.

Can anyone here confirm if what I was suggesting would be cheaper than building a road and railway separately, or even possible at all?

The only railway recommended by the All Island Rail Review that I think that this "rail & road joint corridor" would work for is the Derry-Letterkenny railway, because there's no dual carriageway connecting them(for the most part) but I'd say one will be built at some point. So, if a joint corridor for rail and road would work, I think it should be designed to link Derry and Letterkenny.

Surely the problem is that railways generally require gentler gradients and curves than roads, so the co-location might only work on relatively flat open countryside.

Also you reference to 19th century and bringing motorways inot city centres: I'm sure you meant the 20th century. 😉

The old direct alignment is 30km shorter than going via Limerick Junction. The current Limerick-Cork line is 130km long. Cutting that to 100km would be very significant.

I'd rather they just get on with double tracking Limerick-LJ, just to be clear.