Your New WHS Index

I’ve captain’s prize coming up Sunday week, and I’ve two counting rounds coming out next two. The second one will get me a stroke back for the major, unless I score well.

I will find a way to get two rounds in before then. I will be going out to play well in both, and if I can’t, at least I get a small consolation prize loaded up. When i say small, an extra stroke will give me a little confidence but it won’t improve my swing.

I’d like to think that this is how the the overwhelming majority of golfers approach WHS.

I’m getting the impression that you think you’re the only sane person in a madhouse.

I doubt the majority of golfers are like that - especially given the majority of golfers don't enter causal rounds.

Yeah I agree with this. There's no way its a majority. There might be a few bad eggs, but from what I've seen the majority don't even know what a score dropping out means or really how the whole thing works.

For instance I know that 6 of my next 8 rounds are counting rounds from April/May that will be dropping out. Unless I pull my socks up and string a few shots together I'll be going up in handicap. For me, its motivation to try eek out a good score somehow, despite a month or two of very average play. No way on earth I'd submit casual rounds to clear them out, mostly because I disagree with casual rounds being allowed in principle anyway.

Again, I'm not saying you'd purposefully submit a casual round.

I'm just saying for the original person I quoted who is inputting a couple of casual rounds, that's the situation too many people can take advantage of, with the senitiment I posted previously - Taking on shots they'd never usually take on perhaps. Not taking time over putts. Just arseing about in general with the mentality that 'worst case scenario' their HC goes up

Ahh no, I get that alright and I get it could look bad in certain situations where someone appears to submit two casual rounds to get rid of two green ones. But, its still only a look, the guy could have decided he didn't want an increase and was trying to do a good score to replace the counting round dropping out - we'd never really know and most of the time when we "try" to play well, we don't. Its an honest question rather than purposefully playing devil's advocate, but where is the line between your best efforts and something other than that ? Like, as you say, taking on a shot you'd maybe not normally take on, or trying something different like a new putting routine or something ? We'll never improve if we don't reach for something. I know, for me, there are shots on my course that I'd possibly take on in a stableford comp but definitely wouldn't in a strokeplay one. Similarly, the best putter I've ever known, doesn't really line up his putts at all, a quick glance and away he goes. It even got to the point one time in a Barton Cup final where his partner felt he wasn't taking enough care and they had a row (quietly), and he told the guy to leave him alone on the greens and proceeded to hole a 20 footer on 16th to go one up. Someone who didn't know him could easily think he doesn't give a sh1te. Different folks and all that.

I dunno, I mean, for any of us, in a comp or not, the worst case is our handicap might go up. Some people play better when just ar$ing about, some people play worse when there's no comp on the line. I think it would take an awful lot of planning to ensure that you had a few counting scores dropping out just before the Captains tbh.

Failing to submit a score after registering an intent to submit one will result in a penalty score being applied if the intent has been registered using the Golf Ireland app. https://static.clubhouse.golfireland.ie/clubs/1000/uploads/files/play_golf/automatic%20penalty%20score%20process.pdf

Clubs also have the option to take action against players who consistently fail to return scores in club competitions. Here are the actions Kinsale GC take against repeat offenders. This is not an outlier, I've seen similar in other golf clubs.

Finally, A DQ in a strokeplay competition for not completing a hole does not invalidate the score for handicap purposes. So even if you do pick up on one or two holes, the card must still be submitted.

Exactly this. There's a huge group of players with maybe 20, 30, 40 years of golfing under CONGU in their brains and they simply can't grasp how 36 pts or maybe even 33 or 34 pts can get a cut. There's nothing underhand about it, they're just conditioned to think of handicap a certain way. When my regular group are chatting about it, the question that is often asked is "how can we both shoot 36pts and you'll get cut and I'll might not or might even get an increase" ?

It's a real shame COVID meant the GUI had to cancel all the presentations to the clubs about WHS.

Don't really agree with this tbh. And I'm certainly not blaming anyone for not knowing WHS. While there's no doubt some would have read up, I think plenty of the older generation of players have only a very cursory knowledge of the system and they kind of know "....its something to do with your average or something....". There are still many out there who aren't really used to looking stuff up online and who get irritated when then answer to a query is "its on the website". I think most golfers, if they knew the GUI were visiting their club and doing a presentation, would attend, but not nearly as many would be ar$ed looking something up or possibly able to. Obviously that's not very scientific, but purely from observation and conversations in my own club, which granted would have an older-ish age profile.

Does it actually matter at all whether someone understands the intricacies of WHS? In my opinion, no.

What does matter us than scores are accurate and returned.

if it’s integrity we are after: the deterrent created through a fining / banning system for offenders would, in my opinion, completely outstrip the benefits of education.

Not a topic of conversation in our bar after games. No one cares about who is playing well or not or their handicap. I certainly wouldn't be listening to any of that whinging anyway 😁

The WHS is not fit for purpose in my opinion in relation to competitions, it is an excellent system for social golf if you want to get a handicap.

In the old system it was a slow process to get a shot back, e.g. up to 10 bad scores in competitions so that could be 1-3 months for most.

As with probably a lot of clubs, our club have several players who can win a Cup competition and then within 1-2 weeks be off an even higher handicap for the next Cup competition. I realise that the handicap secretary should review that though in all instances they are volunteers and there are always politics involved.

It is interesting to see if you check your counting scores using the old system taking what the norm was for CSS off the blues, whites, etc and then compare it to the WHS. The lower handicap players struggle to move up, I am speaking from experience, as our 9th-15th scores are probably closer to our handicaps than higher handicap players. I have several green counting scores which would have been .1 back in the old system.

Just an observation as it is up to me whether I decide to play in competitions but I have found that I cannot compete; I shot my lowest score earlier this year in 34 years and came 8th:)

Exactly this ^^ The fact that an intervention is necessary or almost necessary is pretty damning on the system and/or on the people.

I'd wonder though, is it the system is not working, or is it the system is working exactly as its supposed to but people can't get their heads round the change (or maybe accept the change) from CONGU, that's the problem ? Its almost like someone is saying "yes under WHS your handicap will be much more volatile and moveable than before" but at the same time saying "but we don't want it to be too moveable, it doesn't sit right with us, a 10 handicapper should still be a 10 handicapper"

Its probably a bit of both in fairness but honestly I think there's still an element of the worst thing you can ever do in a golf club is win something, and if somebody does, they need to be punished/cut. Even a genuine guy who isn't a handicap cheat, if he's in a real bad run of form, will see his index go up, possibly by quite a bit - chances are at some point he'll find his form and do a good score. Seems like its easy to lump him in with the others.

I really can't see how the handicap secretary should almost ever need to review anything now tbh other than a cursory look at any outliers that might be flagged. Its not like under CONGU where a cut would be lasting for a lot longer. Any cut will likely be gone after a month or two.

Just read last night that GI have removed the ‘set initial handicap’ from the handicapping software. Does this mean now that new players will play a number of GP rounds to build up to a handicap?

New players should have to play 20 rounds before they can enter a competition.

Anything else is a nonsense.

You are correct, it is a rolling 12 months from date of lowest index.

When you played in April you were off 11.7 so I don’t understand where you are getting 20 months from.

If you got down to 11.7 in September 2022, and there was no counting rounds played until April 23, then you would still be off 11.7 in April 23. 11.7 in April 2023 remains your Low Index point.

When you reached 14.7, the Soft Cap (+3 from Low Index) came in, throttling your rate of handicap increase by 50%. If you reached 16.7, then Hard Cap (+5 from Low Index) applies and you can have no further increase until after April 2024.

Say in May 2024 you're still going bad, then your Low Index will be from May 2023 and would be higher, perhaps 11.9 and so you could go to 16.9 before Hard Cap would stop further increases.

Could people above play general play on a links to overcome this..

Handicap Qualifying all year round

ok....Some are HC qualifying all year round