Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

trellheim · 17-09-2023 1:20pm

Finger pointing in EI and lack of accountability has long been an issue for them. On the IT side there has been two complete outages in the last 12 months or so and I've seen no owning of the problems or resignations .

For example the Oireachtas committee hearings on it https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_and_communications/2022-10-05/2/ is an exercise in "not our fault" when any self-respecting CEO remembers its their signature on the contract at the end of the day and owns the problem.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-09-2023 2:01pm

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-caught-up-in-multi-billion-dollar-us-legal-dispute-over-airport-slots/a1257460282.html

Aer Lingus is part of the Oneworld Alliance, along with 12 other airlines, including British Airways, Iberia and Quantas.

Quality journalism as ever from the Indo... 🙄

Jamie2k9 · 17-09-2023 2:36pm

I guess Aer Lingus believe unions have orchestrated the sudden position shift by pilots who had no issues doing this for months. They clearly want something before they will more than likely happly go back doing it.

This will always leave the airline open issues like has happened but likely still better from a financial prospective for the company than hiring lots more pilots.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-09-2023 9:58pm

Well maybe they don't need to hire lots more, but some more - and treat their existing staff better so that some goodwill exists. I mean, Covid pay cuts still in place for some? that's not on.

You'd call a CEO a right twit if he or she scheduled more services than they have aircraft for, but if they do the same thing but scheduling more services than they have crew for... doesn't seem to attract the same opprobrium for some odd reason. It seems that crew are just expected to muck in regardless.

Tenger · 18-09-2023 4:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119357#Comment_121119357

The future fleet with EI will be 186 seater A320neo and A330neo (which will have slightly higher capacity than the A330)

Now this will not be finally converted for 10 years in my opinion.

At that point 2nd hand A350s might be an option.

Murph85 · 18-09-2023 7:40am

With the congestion in Dublin in particular, would they not be better off with something with more capacity than a320 neos.

Locker10a · 18-09-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124437#Comment_121124437

Reporeted on Twitter that Boeing visited Shamrock house twice recently

sherology · 18-09-2023 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125356#Comment_121125356

The GE powered 787 would be a good replacement for the 330 if Boeing offer a good deal - which they have been of late. It is a little bit more fuel efficient (<5%) than the 330neo and carries more cargo but economy would be tighter (9 X 17in seats vs. 8 X 18in).

Rolls Royce is reportedly not being competitive in engine deals (generally) on the 350/330 placing profit (they're reeling from last decade) over wins which is hurting Airbus sales campaigns.

Any Boeing deal would have to include training for pilots, and then EI would need to train cabin crew/in-house maintainance etc. etc. so the deal would have to be pretty good for a fleetwide change. Access to third party maintenance would also be a consideration, and new providers/contracts/understanding would have to be developed. IAG would be helpful here.

As for 737s... again possible but mixed fleet for a small airline are costly.

I do worry with EI though as they seem to be prone to knocks and bangs while on the ground for some reason. Easier to inspect and mend metal than it is composite.

Anywho... Airbus and Boeing will be actively pursuing that 330 replacement order. Time (seemingly endless) will tell.

Cookiemunster · 18-09-2023 1:11pm

Aren't aircraft allocations/replacements decided from up high by IAG?

sherology · 18-09-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125668#Comment_121125668

They're discussed/approved by IAG but each airline makes a case for what they want or think is best for their operations... a bit odd... IAG are more piecemeal with widebody orders vs. shorthaul... in public at least.

Sexual Chocolate · 18-09-2023 4:04pm

The -10 would be right up EI's street if they were really considering it. Would also allow them to carry more cargo and introduce premium economy while still carrying slightly more pax than the a330. Should also still be able to manage US west coast.

EchoIndia · 18-09-2023 4:48pm

I looked at FR24 just now and among the 787-10s currently airborne are a KLM AMS-LAX service and United TLV-EWR, with the latter coming in at close to 11 hours in the air.

Sexual Chocolate · 18-09-2023 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126845#Comment_121126845

ORD to HND with UA is currently the longest at around 12.5 hours. I'd imagine there is some weight restrictions there though. Air New Zealand I believe has been pulling at Boeing arm for a increase in MTOW for them to fly to LA with minimal restrictions.

But for EI it would be a perfectly fine aircraft I'd say. And addition of 24-32 premium economy would be nice to see as well. With 30 business seats it would still allow around 310-320 pax give or take.

Maybe Boeings visit is just for the sake of showing their face but if they've visited twice there might be more to it.

sherology · 18-09-2023 5:42pm

From Leeham News a while back:

A HGW with 1000nm extra would allow:

Replacement of the 777-200ER with the same range, up to 42 additional seats, and more than 25% better fuel efficiency.
An even greater payload advantage over the A350-900, along with 19 more seats, a 2% lower trip, and 8% lower cost per seat.
60 more seats, over 20% more payload, and the same range as the A330-900neo, with 17% lower operating cost.

But with Boeing being all over the place with certification and quality... who knows when that HGW might arrive. The current version, according to Leeham, is pax/cargo unlimited to 5000nm (with a 6500nm official range - limited). How far is LAX? (4502nm). Should be fine. That KLM ams-lax is a good tell.

sherology · 18-09-2023 6:17pm

PS: XLR is in Dublin as part of its 10-Day world tour.

https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/1703784685254426836?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1703784685254426836%7Ctwgr%5E981b9a02c1db2dcd9220e1050979a75f3c16d44a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsimpleflying.com%2Fairbus-a321xlr-route-proving-50-percent-complete%2F

EchoIndia · 18-09-2023 6:21pm

It's due out to Miami tomorrow morning.

Gary walsh 32 · 19-09-2023 2:09pm

Ec nof just landed as ei991 looks like a 4th lease aircraft anyone now what flight it be used for

Shamrockj · 19-09-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130024#Comment_121130024

Toronto tomorrow

California Dreamer · 20-09-2023 10:09am

-EIN operated LAX-BOS yesterday as EI994. Its been in LA all week due to a lack of crew I am told.

The indo article with the COO has further strained relations and those few that were working goodwill have decided to pull back severely limiting ops. There also seems to be a serious maintenance shortage as well.

Hence the 4 hire in's today.

Marcusm · 20-09-2023 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119136#Comment_121119136

Is it really pilot “favours” or do pilots want to do the extra shifts/sectors? A similar issue has been blighting the U.K. rail sector this year. Drivers had essentially corralled additional shifts on rest days to get overtime pay, disrupting the ability to increase driver numbers (as it would reduce take home pay). In order to create a crunch in pay talks they simply withdrew from the extra work meaning the schedules were unworkable. The Union had demanded the extra hours for years and resisted attempts to hire full time drivers and cut overtime.

kevinandrew · 20-09-2023 4:54pm

It all paints a very bleak picture of the airline at the moment, the maintenance shortage is of particular concern to be honest. What’s worse is that it obviously needs urgent addressing but I have very little faith the current management team are competent, or even care enough, to find and implement the solutions needed.

Having an IAG trainee as your CEO was never going to be a good thing.

Pouring money down the drain on hire ins, staff morale on the floor, reliability going out the window, tatty aircraft, declining service standards etc. you can’t help but feel like they’re heading for a fall.

Tenger · 20-09-2023 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134733#Comment_121134733

Flight crew cant really do "extra shifts" as their hours are have a legal maximum. (daily, weekly, monthly, 90 day and annual limits)

However crew can come in a day early if asked (earning the day back after the duty the operate) This creates flexibility in addition to existing rostered standby/on call crew.

EG. Pat is due to go to NYC on Friday and is off the 2 days before, operations ask him to go on Thursday (because the have used all their standbys) instead and he gets an extra day off next week, as he lands in a day earlier than his roster planned. Operations then need to fill the gap on Friday, they might use a reserve, or they might call Sue, who was due to go to LA that day instead, she is happy to accept the shorter duty, and the Friday reserve gets called for the LA flight.

But if crew are no longer willing to change their days off, (or maybe even to accept calls) and its causing this much of an issue then it seems clear that the airline was relying on that flexibility rather than having enough staff on the books.

Maybe they are short due post-covid retirement's and have yet to replace the human resources?

donkey balls · 20-09-2023 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134733#Comment_121134733

Regarding having extra staff fill positions and cut back on staff OT, Some companies pay OT instead of hiring extra staff, As you have costs of training then salary holidays/sickness health insurance pension death in service etc.

kevinandrew · 20-09-2023 11:46pm

On a more superficial topic, the careers page of Aer Lingus says they’re looking for an aircraft interiors specialist. The role includes overseeing the definition and implementation of the new economy and business class, and retrofit of existing aircraft to the new company standards. It specifically mentions new aircraft and the renovation of the existing fleet through cabin modernisation.

It’s been rumoured for a while that they were looking at a new business class, introduction expected in 2025, and that EI-EIK and EIL were getting the new economy cabin after part of their retrofit this winter but this looks as close as we’re getting to official confirmation of such a plan.

I wonder if there are plans to retrofit some of the older A320s to the new A320neo standard as well. Some of them may be around another 5-10 years so would make sense.

jellies · 20-09-2023 11:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134733#Comment_121134733

It’s a different situation. The pilots are not paid well enough for working outside conditions to make it worthwhile. It’s a few hundred quid to come in on a day off which is peanuts so the only reason they are doing it is if it makes sense personally. So they have realised that this is counterproductive to achieving bigger objectives such as decent increases in pay and allowances. The aircraft are rammed full but AL pilots are not back to pre COVID pay levels let alone cost of living increases so it’s no wonder they are getting antsy.

Noxegon · 21-09-2023 9:00am

Apropos of nothing, it's a measure of Aer Lingus that their Customer Service recruitment page still talks about the Gold Circle lounge.

Gold Circle closed in 2016.

See for yourself:

https://www.aerlingus.com/careers/careers-on-the-ground/ground-operations/customer-services/

HTCOne · 21-09-2023 9:03am

There seems to be a real lack of leadership at the airline, no firm hand visible anywhere, and crucially nobody taking responsibility for anything.

Regarding the flight crew issues, regardless of what is actually going on in the background, someone should be front and centre at least saying something generic like “negotiations on terms and conditions are confidential. We value our professional flight crew members, as we do all our employees and team members, who strive to deliver the excellent service and safety our loyal customers deserve”. Etc etc, plamás everyone via the media, the soft touch is important in these situations, no sense in needlessly antagonistic behaviour like going after IALPA on the airwaves, that just hardens attitudes.

sherology · 21-09-2023 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136510#Comment_121136510

I would have assumed that the arrival of the xlrs next autumn (if not even eil/eik) would herald the future cabin configuration. The order for whatever their choices are wil likely already be placed as lead times are long.

The recaro 3810 is the economy seat. Installing vantage seats in eil/eik if they're choosing another seat in a year seems like a bit of a waste. There have been some upgrades to the original vantage made by Thompson Aero s reported by RNG - wider seat/bed area etc.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2023/06/thompson-product-evolution-vantage/

I do love that new DUO cradle seat... but more for medium haul/trancon flights.

Also... nice article about 11hr XLR trip:

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/a321xlr-route-proving/

Tenger · 21-09-2023 7:10pm

Could be a decision to install the current/older J Class seats now rather than wait until 2025.

Then by 2029/30 the rest of the fleet will be upgraded and EIL/EIK can be retrofitted or retired. (They will be 23-24 years old in 2030)

cson · 21-09-2023 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136510#Comment_121136510

They'd be insane if they don't add Premium Economy to a refresh. Everyone else is grabbing a ton of additional cash with that product, easier to justify going from €500 - €1k for PE than it is going to €2k+ for J.

As an aside: anyone have any experience of Wamos J by any chance? I'm on EI119 on Monday and I see EC-MAJ is blocked for it.

Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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