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Microsoft buys Activision-Blizzard

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,454 ✭✭✭marcbrophy


    I'm not happy about the needless complexities of this whole thing, thanks to the CMA trying to save face.

    Buy if the end user is essentially unaware, I can't really complain much then.

    It will be good to hold MS to task, having Ubi able to license their new AVBK games out to other platforms into the future, but surely a gentlemens handshake would have been better! :D



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    What I find hilarious about this is that all this drama is over.a minuscule segment of the market, and it's almost certainly going to stay that way for decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Agree totally.

    That's why I'm convinced that the CMA are working with the FTC in the US to block as they really have Sony's interests at heart.

    Cloud gaming is just not a big enough reason to block the deal.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I dunno, given the sheer amount of resources Microsoft have pumped into cloud gaming, it's clear they think (or, up until very recently, thought*) there was a very big market to build there. And when you look at their approach in PC, enterprise and gaming, they're clearly all-in on the subscription / service payment model from here on out. So they do clearly have big plans there, and Activision exclusivity would be a big boon to them in that respect, so I'm glad it has received regulatory scrutiny and MS have been forced to make concessions. Although it certainly wouldn't be my own biggest concern with the deal.

    *the more cynical reading is that MS' more recent cooled approach to cloud gaming is the result of the regulatory difficulties it has caused, but it also could just be the market hasn't taken off the way they hoped.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    MS also put a lot of money into making the Xbox One the centre of your tv experience, because they really thought that's the way things were going.....

    I'd say it just hasn't taken off to the extent that they want, but that's down to the tech not being there. It might be there for Nvidia, but the console versions just aren't ready for the big time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    No doubt a deal this size warranted scrutiny. That was always expected but in the two cases where there were attempts to block it the reasoning was ridiculous.

    The FTC case was clear that they were protecting Sony and not consumers. The judge said pretty much in court and the case was lost.

    Hearings revealed how much Sony relied on COD and also their practices in getting exclusivity, stopping Xbox getting access and how Sony is anti consumer.

    The more time went on the clearer it became that the merger was better for consumers as they'd have more access to games than at present but FTC ploughed on.

    Same with CMA. Blocking a deal based on potential for nascent market and ignoring all other factors and not actually having the consumers interests at heart.

    I've very curious now what they do with the new restructured deal as I just can't see how they can find a reason to block it.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    CMA has provisionally approved the takeover. I think MS has to wait until the final order in October, but it's all systems go on this now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999



    There's the official statement to back up your post.

    All but a formality now, deal will close in October. Brad Smith from MS already responded on Twitter (Can't say "X" yet")



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I don't really understand the specifics here.

    Does this mean that the Activision back catalog of games that can be cloud streamed will now be on Ubisoft's stream service rather than the Microsoft one? What about new games going forward?

    Is this only streaming? Doesn't affect Game Pass?

    And is this UK only?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    It's the rights to cloud gaming only and it's worldwide not UK as Microsoft have amended the entire acquisitoin.

    Game pass not affected so Activision/Blizzard games will still be going to Gamepass.

    So you may not have access to Activision/Blizzard games on the cloud but I'm sure there's bound to be an agreement between Ubisoft and Microsoft for that.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yes, it's Ubisoft that now have the rights to cloud access, so if MS want to put these games on their own cloud, they have to pay ubisoft for the rights. Same as everyone else.

    Seems a bit mental that this is what gets the deal over the line, as Ubisoft has paid MS for the rights, and now MS has to pay Ubi for the rights back. Ridiculous really.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    But how does this work for future games?

    Microsoft are obligated to sell the cloud rights to future Activision titles to Ubisoft?

    Or is this the back catalog only?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Almost certain to go through now. Still think the whole deal sets a worrying precedent (albeit with hopefully some cultural / workplace benefits for Activision Blizzard staff) and will almost certainly have negative consequences down the line. But if the regulatory marathon and scrutiny they’ve faced at least gives Microsoft pause before pursuing more acquisitions (which, going by the leaked documents, they obviously want to do), that at least will be a cause for a relief.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    No, Microsoft have already those rights withe the merger so future Activision cloud game rights will be owned by Ubisoft.

    Just remember too at present COD etc is not on streaming services so the games are going to be available in more places.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    I don't see any negative side here for consumers only positives.

    Activision games will be on more platforms and will most likely be on Gamepass for subscribers at no extra cost.

    This acquisition to me has exposed Sony's anti-consumer tactics and protectionist behavior as the want to continue the model of paying full price for consoles and content whilst Microsoft is putting games on more platforms at a reasonable price.

    If anything, this deal damages Sony, but not consumers which is good as Sony will now have to adapt their ways to compete.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Sorry, I'm being a bit dumb here.

    So when this deal goes through, and let's say COD becomes a game you can stream. COD 2024 comes out and it's free on Game Pass. Will Microsoft be obligated to sell the cloud streaming rights to COD 2024 to Ubisoft?

    Which would mean, if there was no agreement between MS and Ubisoft, that Game Pass subscribers would have free access to the game itself, but if they wanted to stream it they would need to pay Ubisoft?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    You're almost there but MS won't be obligated to sell the rights. Ubisoft will already own the streaming rights as part of this deal. So the new game will go on Ubisoft's streaming services and other platform that Ubisoft does a deal with.

    So as you say the game will be on Gamepass and MS will have to buy rights from Ubisoft to stream the game on cloud services.

    I'd be pretty certain that won't be a problem.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yes, that's it exactly. The deal lasts for 15 years, so any game released after those 15 years, MS will own the streaming rights to those, but any game released in those 15 years, Ubisoft own the streaming rights forever.

    MS will indeed have to pay to put it on xCloud, but I'd say that they're happy enough with getting this deal over the line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Industry consolidation is widely viewed as negative, regardless of who is doing it and regardless of what industry it is.

    Also, just because Sony doesn't match what Microsoft does as regards price, it doesn't make them 'anti-consumer', which is just a nonsense remark. Does it make Microsoft's approach 'better value' (as it stands now, which may or may not change)? Of course. But it doesn't make Sony anti-consumer.

    In any event, I'm glad this deal has finally been completed. Has been going on far too long!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Have you seen what revealed about Sony during this case?

    Paying developers to not put games on Gamepass , demanding fees if they go on Gamepass etc.

    How are practices like this not anti consumer?

    Not all consolidations are bad for consumers and this deal has recieved widespread support from developers and people across the industry as they say gamepass is good for developers and brings their games to more consumers.

    It's Sony who has stood out as the only company trying to block the deal and deny access to cheaper games to consumers.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Genuine question, ignoring Sony’s practices for a second: do you think Microsoft’s acquisition of Bethesda has been universally beneficial for all consumers?



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    One of the strongest arguments for this deal is that the current environment isn't competitive. Sony are so far ahead of MS that it's relatively easy for them to secure exclusives that MS couldn't dream of getting. You can argue that MS caused this current status quo, (the Xbox One was a tremendous mistake) but is the current situation good for the consumer? No, I don't think so. Case in point would be the recent price rises that both companies pushed through, the only place that they didn't increase the price was the US market, which is the only market that Xbox is even close to competitive in.

    I don't know if the acquisition is what gets MS competitive again (not likely, imo), but I really want them to get to much closer to Sony in marketshare, and then we'd see both companies really compete of the consumer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,473 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Well Bethesda games are now free to Gamepass subscribers and they're also on PC.

    Also, being managed better as Starfield was released after a delay and more polished than it would have been under Bethesda.

    So I know you're referring to PlayStation but that's what competing is all about. Sony are the ones who push the whole exclusivity agenda resulting in top games being restricted and people being forced to buy a PlayStation to play the likes of TLOU , God of War etc

    That's not the case with MS acquisitions as you don't need to buy an Xbox to play them and the games are available to more consumers than before at a cheaper price.

    So in conclusion, yes, the acquisition of Bethesda is good for consumers.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I have zero problems with console makers developing exclusives - it’s an ancient practice. I would never expect Halo or Gears of War of Forza to show up on a PlayStation or Nintendo console, and I’m fine with that.

    What I do have a problem with is games that were available across the board being held back from platforms due to massive corporate acquisitions. Fewer people can play Starfield or Elder Scrolls VI now than would’ve been the case pre-acquisition. Which IMO is a massive negative.

    And this isn’t a Sony v Microsoft thing. I also strongly oppose Sony acquiring studios like Bungie, because that’s also worrying consolidation. But Bethesda and Activision are leagues apart from other acquisitions in terms of scale and influence, hence why I can’t help but be suspicious.

    Yes, regulators have won some worthwhile concessions in this case, due to the unprecedented scale of the deal. But given Microsoft’s approach with Bethesda and the time-limited nature of the deals they’ve struck, I can’t help but think of major consequences further down the line. And for all Phil Spencer’s friendly public persona, the recent leaks show the ruthless corporate suit behind that persona.

    Also GamePass is not ‘free’. I think it’s a good deal still, but we’ve just had a price hike and we’re one or two more away from it being a much less attractive deal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭McFly85


    The immediate loss for the consumer is loss of choice.

    Say a person could only afford one console and loved God of War and Bethesda games. Would have been a pretty easy choice to go for a PS5, now that option no longer exists, and that lack of choice means either not playing the games they want or being out of pocket.

    And regards Sony forcing full price on everyone, that’s not true either. They have their own subscription service, and they have regular sales. Nobody needs to pay full price or not play at all. If that accusation could be levelled at anyone it would probably be Nintendo.

    MS have more than enough studios to create their own unique IP to put on Gamepass. Buying up publishers and their existing IP is anti-choice and anti-consumer in the long run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Hmmmm. I don't need an Xbox to play their acquired games... Let me just boot up Starfield on my PlaySt..... Oh wait.

    And listen, I don't agree when Sony do it either but this is the biggest example of making a play for exclusiveness, which you've already said that when Sony tried to do it by restricting games on Gamepass it was bad and anti-consumer. So which is it? If someone with a PlayStation wants to play Starfield or a Bethesda game now, they need to buy an XBox or a PC, yet you're telling me its at a cheaper price for consumers....

    And also, they're available to more consumers now? Last I checked they would have been available on PC, Xbox and PlayStation but now its just PC and XBox, how is that more consumers?

    All I hear is 'Good when Microsoft do it, Bad when Sony do it' which is fine and the usual console-wars shtick (irrespective of which player does it or what way around that statement is).

    And yes industry consolidation is bad when its on a large scale. Less variety in games being made, less decision-makers, less studios with an independent vision, less freedom to approach games differently, less companies dictating prices/costs.

    I would say the EXACT same thing if Sony were doing this.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The reason you can't play Starfield on Playstation is Sony.

    Microsoft would happily make Game Pass available on Playstation, they have tried to do so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,601 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    That's always been my take on it too. Companies buying smaller studios and growing them into first-party studios and making exclusives for their own platform, I think that's entirely reasonable. Companies buying large studios to make the big games/franchises which would have been multi-platform exclusive to their own platform, that's something I disgaree with.

    Sony are certainly not innocent of sketchy stuff in many other regards; buying exclusive content for multiplatform games (eg. Spider-Man in Marvel's Avengers), timed exclusivity (eg Deathloop, which became an even weirder situation when MS bought Bethesda just before it), paying devs not to put their games on Gamepass instead of just f*cking paying to put it on PS+.

    I don't think MS buying Bethesda or Acti-Blizz are good overall, simply because there's a huge difference between making exclusive games for your platform, and making games exclusive to your platform.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    An equally valid argument is that Bethesda would have happily made the game available to Sony until Microsoft made it so the only way that would happen is that Microsoft (Sony's direct competitor) insert themselves in the process and take a cut directly from Sony's userbase/revenue.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    And for what it’s worth, I think there can be some good acquisitions. I think on balance Microsoft buying Double Fine, for example, is a net positive (for now, at least) - some multi-platform releases might be lost, but it was a studio struggling to stay afloat and now has significantly less financial pressure to worry about. It may turn negative down the line (Lord knows Microsoft and Sony are both happy to close ‘underperforming’ studios), but for now I think it was a good play for almost everyone.

    But on the other hand, as court documents and leaks have proven, even Bethesda themselves aren’t super happy about being restricted to one console only - especially when special deals are carved out for Activision-Blizzard titles.



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