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So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Science is not a book that "explains" everything. As mentioned, it's a method for measuring, calculating, etc. We can explain a certain amount of stuff in the universe, another portion is hypothetical, and there's a lot that is unexplained.

    Personally I think, due to the number of stars, and planets within their habitable zones, that there is life out there in the universe. However I haven't seen any credible evidence that any sort of intelligent life is visiting Earth. I have however seen endless evidence that people want to believe in it. People want simple answers to complicated questions, it's difficult and scary to accept that we don't know things and may never know them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Yep. An for hundreds of years humans claimed to have created or tried to create intelligent automata. All failed.

    Many said it was impossible, even until recently. Many AI researchers were seen as pursuing dead ends including generative AI .

    And now we can. And it happened practically in the blink of an eye.


    Only 20 years or so did we get verifiable proof of extrasolar planets! Greek philiosphers were talking about them 1000s of years ago.


    70 years means nothing. What is key is our technological abilities to detect what is out there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed, however AI was predictable, as are many things.

    However when it comes to us or anyone else moving through the vast distances of space, unfortunately the limits of physics are not great for small squishy things (us) from going where we want. The furthest we've travelled is the moon, it takes light 1.25 seconds to get there. In comparison our closest star outside the solar system takes light 4 and a quarter years to reach. Meaning that if we could reach the speed of light, it would still take us over 4 years to get there. Not to mention all the bizarre physics paradoxes that start to happen as light speed is approached. And all the other inhibitors in space (radiation, exposure, etc)

    Progress, and science fiction, and TV convince people that "live long enough and we'll get interstellar travel". It's difficult to come to terms with, but it's not necessarily a given, for us or for any other intelligent race out there. Apart from long term drones, it may simply be impossible for beings to travel far outside their own solar system.

    As for detection of extra terrestrial signals, indeed, we may develop the tech to pick that up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yes. I know what entropy is. Not sure what that has to do with my post.

    Not convinced you know yourself either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Entropy is the tendency to disorder over time i.e. nothing is perfect,nothing is completely predictable and systems fail over time. That doesn't change even if you are an advanced civilisation. There will be accidents and events that weren't predicted to occur.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    They're not very advanced if their means of communicating is anal probing some yokels in the American mid west.


    Again.....


    Strange that...

    Post edited by sydthebeat on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    ''Meaning that if we could reach the speed of light, it would still take us over 4 years to get there'


    At the speed of light you would actually get there instantly. In fact you could be anywhere in the universe as distance and time for you would no longer exist.

    If approaching very close to the speed of light you would experience a very short lapse of time.

    It's the outside observers who age the 4 years not you in your spaceship who may age just a few days.


    Nevertheless intelligent entities are 99.9999% likely to be some kind of machines so aging won't bother em so much anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    AI was predictable means what exactly?

    Nope..the emergence of very powerful generative AI was very unpredictable and it was seen mostly as an academic curiosity for decades, as anybody who has followed this area will know (there are many interviews with the scientists who developed this online).



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But that doesn't really apply to my argument. Nor does it make any sense given that the point I'm addressing is that aliens are supposed to be advanced and able to overcome any physics that might lessen the chances of them appearing on Earth.

    Nor does it address the fact that if alien craft were failing at the rate being claimed, then they are failing at a higher rate than our airliners.


    I get the feeling this was just an attempt to handwave the issue with a buzzword and technobabble.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    You asked.

    ''Also ir begs the question if they are so advanced, why do their ships keep crashing?""


    I explained clearly to you that entropy is one of the core laws of nature, all systems tend to disorder. If you can't understand that check into it yourself.


    Here is an excellent article on the subject, read it.

    https://fs.blog/entropy/



    Improbable and random events occur all the time, all machines and all objects and living things will suffer wear and tear from forces applied to them over time.


    In addition to this intelligent entitities by their nature have a mind of their own and conflict will occur as they have different objectives, so it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent mishaps 100% , advanced civilisations still aren't God.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    In addition to this intelligent entitities by their nature have a mind of their own and conflict will occur as they have different objectives

    where can we find a list of these objectives that you are so confident in determining?

    maybe if they are easily fulfilled, we can help them out and reduce the risk of them travelling all that distance only to suddenly have their spaceship fall apart in our atmosphere.

    im sure they'd be quite happy with that arrangement, though id never dare speak for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Sigh, I'll have to explain stochastic evolution and law of the fittest next, Darwin did the heavy lifting a long time ago. :).


    There won't be one intelligent life form, one individual out there, there'll be millions of them distributed about and they will have one main objective..survival. Sometimes one individual or groups or species survival means competing and fighting and even killing other individuals or groups or species. It could be for resources, it could be for power, it could be for a simple thing as a difference of opinion. Those evolutionary rules don't change just because you have advanced technology. Look around you in the year 2023!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yes, but then I explained how just blurting the word "entropy" doesn't actually mean you've addressed the point.

    Firstly, the premise is that aliens can defy physics. UFO believers are constantly telling us that the speed of light and other issues aren't problems because aliens can solve it with their magic hyper advanced technology. If that's the case, then it's the case for entropy as well. If that isn't the case, and they aren't able to overcome entropy, then you similarly cannot declare that they cannot ignore other physics. Can't have it both ways.

    Secondly, the issue I raised wasn't that such an event might happen, it's that it's happening at a high frequency.

    If all these alien crashes are to be believed, then they are crashing at a higher rate than airliners. This doesn't make any sense if the aliens are supposed to be hyper advanced.

    Neither of these points have anything to do with entropy really.

    I think you've just googled a word you think sounded scientific and you are using it without actually understanding it or how it applies to the argument you are trying to make.



  • Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Arbitrary


    Ok. Jackie Chan image. Right, so it explains to us what the measurement is? And so is a book that explains everything. In time you'll feel quite silly when all this comes to light. I'll make a few other predictions. Anti-Gravity is real, Uncle Sam is in possession of it. Time travel is real and Einstein was wrong about it. Someone is sending us a message with all of this. Nostradamus, bible prophecies. All very curious.



    This. Friendlies who have historically been attacked by Pleidians aka Tall Whites who are very warm and friendly with the rotten elements of Uncle Sam. There's a long history of reports of Zetans aka greys being murdered here. There's reports of them working with Uncle Sam the CIA were sniffing around an alleged crash in Russia.


    I don't understand why every wants to argue here, take all these posts or leave them. We're just crazy! Okay. Then leave us here to discuss this and have a nice day. Why are you all so invested in dismissing all of this? Why waste your time with all us crazies?


    Why don't all you guys start up your own conspiracy skeptics forum? This is the conspiracy forum, a place to discuss interesting and curious bits of data, that are all folks can get their hands on, and we detect something curious about it all. You disagree, maybe this forum isn't for you? Some people only post because they want to be right, and the worst part is, you can't put forward any scientific argument to conclusively dismiss all of this data.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I explained twice now entropy guarantees that advanced technologies will still have critical failures. In fact engineers know the more complex the system the more points of failure there could be.


    You seem embarrased to accept that 'failure' and 'crashes' are simply part of the natural order of the universe.


    How about accepting thats it 100% going to happen that advanced space vehicles will still have catastrophic failures at certain times and move on.


    The real question is could these hyper intelligent beings with their advanced technology hide it from us when things go wrong. Probably.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's a discussion forum, not an agreement forum. If you personally want to believe in aliens, time travel, anti-gravity stuff, etc, cool, that's fine.

    Maybe all that exists, I'll wait for the verified evidence though. Been burnt too many times over the decades with false claims and false predictions that never came true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yes, but you're not actually addressing my points though.

    You're just shouting "entropy".


    I don't actually accept that there are hyper advanced space vehicles, so not sure why I would accept that they would be crashing at a rate greater than airliners because of some misinterpretation of how entropy works.


    Also, here we run into another issue. These aliens are using their advanced technology to hide their constant, inevitable crashes, but they aren't advanced enough to turn off their running lights. Or scan something from high orbit...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I never said the things you are claiming here.

    So go argue with somebody else.

    And if you want to say entropy isn't a core part of our universe's laws good luck to ya . Ever see a Boeing 747 spontaneously assemble itself.

    Yep, thought not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed, any hypothetical "alien race" that had achieved actual interstellar travel would easily have stealth capability - we wouldn't have a notion they were watching us or even here among us with our primitive technology.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I've put forward several arguments that detail why I believe that the evidence any arguments for UFOs etc are very lacking and very shallow. They have not been addressed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Arbitrary


    Yes, but you're only invested in being a skeptic. For everything I've claimed here, I can put forward a litany of substantial information.You read it, you breeze of it, take no stock of it, as though it's not real and it never happened and you're perfectly sane, and I am not. Huh. Interesting.

    You want to believe what your doing works, it's almost akin to trolling. You're fooling nobody but yourselves. Here's a prediction I'll make. You'll be getting all that evidence, and when we do, people like you will have a difficult time finding a job. Be it willful or otherwise, people with no connection to God's intelligence, will have a difficult time finding work.

    The science of intelligence and frequencies of energy within our auras has been criminally suppressed by a bot army of mind control users, who waste away in their homes, with no life and no friends, and they are part of a paedo ring that has proliferated over mind control technology.

    Tips hat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Arbitrary


    Right, but you know the way the pentagon has acknowledged this issue? So you know, people arguing against at this point tend to look a bit silly, and their arguments are full of fluff and no substance. Time will prove you all wrong. Again, why are you so invested? Read my post above. You're all in the wrong forum, you need a conspiracy skeptics forum, guys.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I did not say "entropy isn't a core part of our universe's laws". Not sure why you are claiming I did.

    I'm also not sure what you're objecting to in my post.

    You just suggested that aliens would have the means and motivation to hide their constant crashes:

    "The real question is could these hyper intelligent beings with their advanced technology hide it from us when things go wrong. Probably."

    This leads to several contradictions. For example, if they'd go to the bother of hiding a crash using advanced, magical technology, then they'd also do something as simple and obvious as turning off their running lights. Or if they were that capable, they wouldn't need to fly around in the atmosphere in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yes. I've made several posts and provided several links directly discussing the recent government hearings. These were not addressed.

    I'm interested in discussion. Conspiracy theorists are not when their theories are at risk of being challenged.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ah i see we're back to playing word salad arguments....

    for every 'stochastic evolution' i will point you to 'multiple discovery'

    for every 'entropy' of spacecraft ill point you to 'occams razor' that they are either fake or non-existent

    for every 'the truth is out there' ill point you to apophenia.

    the lack of evidence is deafening



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Well maybe they usually do turn off the lights but sometimes they act up. Playing around. Malfunctions. Who knows.

    It's extremely likely any advanced entitities that did make it here can mess with our minds too, if they wanted to.

    I never said that there were hidden craft or any of that crash stuff ever proven. Seems pretty unlikely that a) we recovered any and b) the secret never came out, but it's not 100% impossible either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Okay. It's worth keeping in mind this forum is a catalogue going back at least 13 or so years of hundreds of claims similar to yours. Time travel, aliens, conspiracies, doomsday, predictions, amazing technology, you'll find it all here.

    So far, none of it has come true.

    For example, you claim "anti-gravity" technology is real that the US has it, amazing, I'd love it that were true, but I'm used to being disappointed by the lack of credible evidence. If you have evidence, please share it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    AI has come through...it's coming for your job next.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Not even discussing stealth. Just talking about them turning off their lights at night.

    The vast vast majority of sightings are basically just "lights in the sky". The aliens would be dropping their discovery rate by an order of magnitude by just flicking one switch.

    If they are leaving their lights on, then they don't care about being discovered. If they don't understand that humans can see light, then they aren't very clever, or they don't understand us enough to know they need to hide from us.



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