Question for playing times at underage level

23-09-2023 5:48pm #1

Hi,

Would someone with more GAA knowledge then me give me some advice.

What is the game time rules for young lads, U13?

Particularly in a championship, is there any rules around how much game time a player on the panel should get?

Ash.J.Williams · 23-09-2023 5:57pm

Is this a thing ?

I've never heard of this rule

23-09-2023 6:15pm

Is it not a thing around playing times.

I coach in soccer, and at anything up to U 15 we have min playing times for players. It's ensure all get game time and development.

Is that not a thing in GAA?

BrianBoru00 · 23-09-2023 6:19pm

No.

Go games which is all age groups up to u12 do.

23-09-2023 6:21pm

Ah ok.

I'm just curious. Does that not turn lads away from the game?

Ash.J.Williams · 23-09-2023 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147517#Comment_121147517

Only the ones they don't want

[Like me]

BrianBoru00 · 23-09-2023 6:31pm

I don't think so.

I think, by and large, the players lost are those who are going to be lost anyway within a few years as they just don't have the dexterity.

I know it's sometimes a Joe Duffy type issue but the other side is that there's guys who are going to make it and have the ability and they want to win. It's very unfair on those guys if they're losing a game because they're not fielding they're strongest possible team.

I think it's fair enough at u8 / u10 but even at that age group the players get frustrated and end up just not passing to the players with no ability.

23-09-2023 6:36pm

It's a strange one I find.

Some lads just don't have the skill young but do develop it later on, with work.

Some of our best players now are the lads who stuck with it.

Just think it's terrible for the lads, who through no fault of thier own, get to sit at the sidelines.

BrianBoru00 · 23-09-2023 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147559#Comment_121147559

No doubt - there's no 100% correct answer.

The slower developers that become good senior players though always "had it". Theres maybe a couple in each club that just had to work their socks as they had very little basic skills and more than likely are the hardest working okayers still.

Like if you imagine a graph with skill level on the bottom line and an enthusiasm level on the side ....the top right corner will probably play county, as you go more towards the middle you've good club players and then those who give up.

I've seen at first hand many complaints where someone's son is upset because they are not getting a game but when you delve into theres a load of different things going on.

I place a lot of smacht on attendence at training sessions and whoever trains plays.

Theres often complaints along the lines of "that clique" - all their sons are playing.

And I take these with a pinch of salt as in that scenario the likelihood is that their sons are at most of the training sessions as their fathers (and mothers) are selectors, they're parents played themselves so probably have a decent skill levels which has been passed on.

At the most fundamental level coaching standards are very average. What is the coach to players ratio? At an absolute minimum it should be 6:1 at u8/u10 level and ideally 3:1 or lower. Otherwise the actual coach to player time ratio is too low to have any meaningful long term impact. And thats before taking into account the standard of the coaches themselves which varies even more widely than the players.

I'm hoping that for all of the players under my care, by the time they get to college they'll all have a strong identity with the club and a large number are involved. Some as senior players ,others as junior or recreational and some still as administrators or coaches. And for those who aren't I'd hope they have happy memories for the most part and would make an effort to reconnect and meet with former team mates diuring the Championship...

Maybe I'm a dreamer 🤔

joebloggs32 · 23-09-2023 7:41pm

Ideally all players at u13 would get at least half a match but that may not happen as some coaches will focus on winning solely above everything else.

Earlier in this year in u12 camogie I was coaching against a team who had 9 subs. Only in the last 10 minutes and with a lead of about 15 points did the opposition bring on a sub. I had 4 subs and was rolling them in and out each quarter so everyone got 3/4 of a game. The funny thing was the other team had one girl who really was a super player but apart from her there was not much of a difference. They qualified for the A final, but she was injured for the game and they lost it. My team played a shield final. Had 7 subs and all played half a game, we won and the girls were over the moon. Real success for me would be to see all these girls back next year.

If you sat down and thought about the other team its ludicrous that so many girls travelled that evening to play us and sat on the bench for nearly the whole game, but I can only look after those in my club.

BrianBoru00 · 23-09-2023 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147795#Comment_121147795

Oh it is completely ludicrous but that goes back to the quality of the coach/ manager. #Like in that scenario you've described - presuming it's 15 a side - You've 10 definites and the following 5+9 are evenly matched - nominate a coach to take charge of the substiututions.

Let the players know they might be coming off after five mins but that they will be coming back in and rotate those 14 players so that each of them gets approx. 20 minutes. It's a great coaching tool as well as the coach is talking individually about what they're doing well, not so well and what changes to make.

Again it comes down to the quality of the coach though.

Uncle Pierre · 26-09-2023 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147496#Comment_121147496

I happen to know a bit about this through one of my own lads playing U15 soccer.

They have a thing all right where all U15 players are supposed to get a minimum of 20 minutes, and 35 minutes is recommended (i.e. half of the match, since U15 matches are 35 minutes each way).

BUT they also have a thing where you're not supposed to have more than 16 in your matchday squad. It means that if you've got 18 players available, for example, you'd have to leave two of them on the sideline for the whole match, or maybe even tell them no point in going to the game at all.

My other lad is U11 and I have to say the soccer situation is ridiculous when compared to the GAA in terms of playing time at matches.

In Go Games hurling & football, playing numbers etc. are decided by the clubs themselves on the day - e.g. if we had 18 players and other club had 19, we'd play three matches of six-a-side, or two matches of nine-a-side, with the other club having one rolling substitution.

But in his two soccer matches so far - we brought 16 players to the first, and 18 to the second. The other clubs involved had similar numbers. But instead of being able to play two eight-a-side matches each day, we were restricted to just one game per day, that's supposed be seven-a-side but which can apparently go up to nine-a-side if both clubs agree. Reason being that these non-competitive matches for some reason have to have an official referee, and there's only one referee available per venue, per day.

Anyway, it meant we could only have nine on the pitch at a time, with all the others having to wait their turn. If we were allowed to do it 'the GAA way', we'd have had two eight-a-side or nine-a-side matches, with every boy being able to play every single minute.

Maybe you didn't intend your post this way, but if you're suggesting that soccer is ahead of the GAA in terms of arrangements for adequate playing time for young players, I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree with you. Again, I feel that situation for 10- and 11-year-old boys is ridiculous.

rpurfield · 27-09-2023 11:17am

I think it varies county by county to be honest. In Meath U13 is 13 a side on a short pitch and the following are the rules around playing time:

12. Players are recommended not to play with two teams on the same day.

13. All members of the team panel should participate in the game. All clubs should be encouraged to promote an equal playing time ethos where younger players are not playing above their grade unless necessary due to a lack of numbers within a catchment area.

14. Substitutions shall be unlimited. All substitutions must be made in a break of play. A break in play shall be when the play is stopped after a score or wide or for a free, sideline kick/kick or when the Referee has stopped play for medical attention to an injured player. Teams must use the official team list supplied by Coiste na nÓg. No need for sub slips. All players must have their unique GAA registration number on this form. All players are to be on the team list. This list must be presented to the referee in Irish, in BLOCK CAPITALS, and in duplicate before the commencement of the game(s).

15. Where a club fails to observe the rule that all members of the team panel should participate in the game; that club shall forfeit the match and may be disqualified from the competition.

16. Where both clubs in the same match fail to observe the rule that all members of the team panel should participate in the game; the game shall be deemed void and both clubs may be disqualified from the competition.

17. Play shall be limited to 2 touches

In comparison I know at at U13 in Dublin its played to full rules and I don't think there is any rules around minutes for players.

tenbob1 · 27-09-2023 11:30am

As for the soccer, my 10 year old daughter sat on the sideline for their last 2 league games, because they wanted wins. Fair play they got their meaninless points, but at the expense of some very upset kids.

For the gaelic football, its go games for the girls, the games are non-scored and from what I see all the kids get equal play time regardless of ability, no scores are taken. Having said that my 13 year old lad quit this year, as he spend ALL of last year on the sideline, as the team wanted to win, it wasnt like he was not going to training, he was. It ended up with issues at school as he was being picked on for being useless at football. But fair play to them they also got some meaningless wins.

crusd · 27-09-2023 11:47am

It depends on your goal. Trophies for the club and development of players for the senior team, or happy kids who stay involved in sport.

Former Former Former · 27-09-2023 11:47am

The mentality is completely different in soccer, from the organisational level down to the individual mentors. Winning is all that matters.

The GAA clubs around me (one of which I coach in) all have a "come along and try your best" approach for kids up to age 12. Everyone gets equal playing time and there is no streaming of abilities. The kids who really like it or are good will stick with it, and you'll get a natural attrition over time, but the improvement you see in some kids over even a few months is astounding.

The soccer clubs are the same in the nursery stage, but once the kids start playing matches, you have to go along to trials and you may or may not get a spot in the squad. My son's friend got cut, aged 8, from the soccer club. It's absolute madness telling a kid that young that he's not good enough and can't play any more, and denying him the opportunity to improve.

There seems to be no appetite to change this, and we'll be here in ten years wondering why our national team is still sh1t. Just so a few auld lads can live vicariously through their kids.

Uncle Pierre · 27-09-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163103#Comment_121163103

Sooner or later in every team sport - whether it be soccer, GAA, or anything else - you'll move away from participation games (i.e. Go Games in GAA) to competitive leagues and championships. In GAA, the rule is that it's Go Games up to U11, which means that anything from U12 upwards can be organised on a competitive basis.

I realise it's hard for parents/players to accept, but that transition point is where you're inevitably going to see such things occurring, as players who aren't in the top 11 for soccer or the top 15 for hurling/football/rugby simply aren't going to get the same game time as those who are.

You could make an argument that the transition point should be at an older age - let's say U15 or U16 - but then you're really only postponing the issue that will inevitably occur anyway.

Having said that, there are things that counties and clubs can do to give playing times to such lads. Here in Wexford (where we run things on 'even ages' - i.e. U12, U14, U16 & U18), we have 'Rising Stars' matches at both U12 and U14, as well as the actual leagues/championships. These are games where you pick your team using the lads who don't generally play the leagues/championships.

For instance, my own club had around 30 players in the U12 squad this season. For the midweek league matches, we'd start with the top 15, and bring on a few others during the match. For the Rising Stars match at the weekend, we'd start with all the lads who didn't get a run midweek, and if necessary, top it up to 15 using some of the 'weaker' lads who played midweek (and I use the term 'weaker' very hesitantly, but you know what I mean).

About 75% of all clubs taking part in the U12 league here also took part in Rising Stars. Those that didn't were mainly rural clubs from smaller areas, who maybe had only 18 to 20 players anyway.

Incidentally, U10 soccer (for both boys and girls) is supposed to be non-competitive, with no league tables kept and no points awarded for results. That might be a whole other issue for a whole other sport, that you might want to look into.

Question for playing times at underage level

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