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The Hurt Locker: Ireland v South Africa. Saturday 23rd September. Stade DeFrance

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And my point is, until that QF, this team deserves the benefit of that doubt that they can deliver in it, due to the body of work they’ve put together.

    Rather than the negativity.

    Call me skeptical, but I daresay if they had lost, I doubt you would be shrugging it off as just a pool game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭legend99


    It wasn't actually a tackle as such. The ball carrier needs to get a knee to ground for it to become a tackle. When a third player joined them it became a maul. The ref was then basically reminding the Irish side of their obligation re safety for the opponent as he was off the ground in the maul. That's how I interpret it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,416 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    The 4 group games are enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Call me skeptical, but I daresay if they had lost, I doubt you would be shrugging it off as just a pool game.

    If SA had kicked their kicks, or scored at the end and won by two points, I'd be saying the exact same thing, it doesn't really change anything. This team will be judged on whether it gets past the quarter finals. And it will take us delivering probably our greatest ever performance in 3 weeks to achieve that, regardless of what happened last night.

    Honestly, the biggest positive for me from last night was the fact that we had zero injuries, not the result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    I liked the way lowe basically said "down boy", to the incoming south african as the ref had blown the whistle..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And it will take us delivering probably our greatest ever performance 

    I'd honestly question that, given what we've seen from Ireland and NZ respectively (and contrastingly) in the last 18 months.

    It seems to me you're basing your "I'll believe it when I see it" solely on Ireland's record in QF's and utterly ignoring the body of work this team has put together.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I have had my hand stamped in four games that I remember, had to play with a balloon of a hand for half a game as a scrum half. Guys are always looking for that opportunity, it's a complete sickener and nothing you can do about it either but play on and hope for the best. Would be fantastic if it finally got reffed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,509 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    I thought he let the game be decided by the teams and not by being the centrepiece.

    the journalist grew up in Northern Ireland so despite being a NZ website don’t think he is inherently biased.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Everyone is well aware of the quarter final jinx or hex with Ireland, but it also has to be said that this Irish team is a better side, better prepared, in better form and a more confident one than any of the previous ones. The previous versions just weren't good enough to win a World Cup (loss of form / confidence, injuries etc) at the time they competed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭Field east


    To be specific ,

    (1)would the ball have been deemed dead if any part of Hanson’s body had touched the dead all line or behind it and he then grounded the ball on the right side of the line

    (2)If any part of Hanson’s body had gone over the dead ball line and the ball had been touched down on the right side of the line WHILE HIS BODY WAS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    this Irish team is a better side, better prepared, in better form and a more confident one than any of the previous ones.

    Again, we say this every 4 years and it's never true. I'll believe it when they actually go and do it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Pretty sure it's No.1. If any part of his body makes contact with the end line or goes over it, he is deemed to have gone out of play.

    I think he had a momentary brain freeze - he was so excited to be scoring a try and trying to gain a good position for the conversion that he almost lost concentration for a split second on what he was actually doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,959 ✭✭✭long_b


    He had a fairly hefty push on the back from a SA player that nearly sent him out of play



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    That part is true, but it has to be said that no previous version of the team was good enough to win a World Cup. Yes, they probably 'choked' when they got to the QF, but I don't think they were good enough to win it either....the form just wasn't there when they competed.

    It's hard to imagine any Andy Farrell led team choking in the knockout stages. The form book and the No. 1 ranking really suggests they should be making the semis or the final minimum.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I also don't buy the talk of us being fatigued, being on the tough side of the draw, from games like SA last night.

    1. We're at the start of our season unlike the southern hemisphere teams.

    2. We will have sore bodies after the SA game but no injuries. We have a two week break to recharge physically and mentally.

    3. Scotland will be a far less intense game of rugby. They have less power and a different style we have handled easily many times. Scotland have a losing mentality in big games, no championship since 1999. South Africa have a winning mentality, won 3/7 World Cups and we beat them.

    4. If we don't get a raft of injuries v Scotland, and PG beat them as usual, we hit NZ in great nick. At this stage of the tournament we couldn't be in a better position.

    I'm happy!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭Kalyke


    Hahahahahah



  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭legend99


    Had he touched the deadball line while in possession, then yes, ball is out of play and no score is then possible.

    There is an unusual one which very rarely arises, which is, that ifsay the ball was loose in the in-goal (try scoring) area, then an attacking player who is in touch, can still apply downward pressure and the try is legit.

    Law 8.2(e)

    Who is in touch or touch-in-goal, grounds the ball in the opponents’ in-goal provided the player is not holding the ball.


    P.S. It is called a try, as originally, you only registered a score if you got the conversion. So grounding it allowed you to "try" to get the score from the kick....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Under the old meaning the current South African team would have difficulty scoring a try!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Being fatigued can be a factor but I just dont see it being one for a team of the quality of this Irish side. When it comes to conditioning and fitness the Irish players, just like the French,SA and NZ players, are at such a high level that they will be able to navigate through this tournament without much issue.

    If it was Fiji or Argentina for instance I would worry about fatigue but not a team like Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Toeuptony


    Scotland also have 3 games in 13 days, with a shallower squad than us. So while we will be refreshed after a week off with hopefully a full squad to pick from, they may well be missing a few first string players.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Could well be Fiji in the Semi.

    If Fiji beat Georgia and Portugal with TBPs they'll finish on 16 points. If Wales lose this evening the most they'll finish on is 16 and Australia have to get a TBP and 5 points in their last game to get to 16 points



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Shehal


    In Wales' case 16 points is all they'll need to top the pool so long as Australia also dont get 16 as they'll beat Fiji on h2h.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,245 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I would like dis-associate myself from the above prediction 😄



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't worry, we've already taken our thanks off😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Don't be obtuse, there is sufficient evidence there, from now and from over the last two years that this is the case.

    We beat everyone, all the time.

    The squad is content, respected, cohesive.

    They have the very best of everything in terms of management, coaching, S&C, psychology and performance management, balance of work and family time.

    The depth at every position is real and evident, including 4 or 5 World's best in their jerseys.

    The philosophy of the head coach and his assistants is positive and flexible and players are encouraged to innovate.

    PS, while I think of it, massive congratulations to Simon Easterby and the players for executing a defensive masterclass last night. It was absolutely incredible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Just asking g myself wtf is POC doing that has our l/o a mess?

    Great win and a really tough encounter. Sexton is just amazing. What a player! All time great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Yes. Murray's arrival especially was crucial. he was instrumental in us winning



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,030 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Interesting reading back on all the comments - my 2c (only watched it the once).

    For me Flannery hit a good tone after with his analysis (not sure I agree with his rub of the green bit from the ref though). Delighted with the result obviously but plenty to work on and some things to be a little worried about. At the time I felt like they had most of the ball and territory, which was the case in the 2nd half, but over the course of the match it actually turned out very even. However ROC had these stats: Ball in play tonight was just 27 mins, 19 seconds. Ire only scored 1 pt/22 entry, ruck speed was way slower at 4.83 secs, just 16% of their ball was between 0-2 secs.

    With those stats in mind, I don't know if SA will be too upset in terms of I think they know how to beat us, they just didn't take their chances. But then, you could probably say that in a lot of matches. I really wouldn't like to face them again, I think on another day they could have beaten us well and I get the feeling this match was a little bit of an experiment for them - as opposed to a full runout for us. Someone said it was a defensive masterclass, which was true. I just wouldn't like to go through that against them a second time.

    Lineout is the primary concern, I don't think Kelleher will like that review as to my mind at least 3-4 of our 6 lost were on him for over- and crooked throws. But that's what pressure does to you I guess. Once we went shorter to POM and Beirne, and Henderson latterly, it improved. Our maul was a plus, as was our maul defence. Still though, the lineout has been a going concern for a while now - this is looking like a coaching issue.

    I think we're a very smart, well-drilled team able to change the approach as needed. For us to win this World Cup we're going to have to break the record for consecutive wins. We've had the rub of the green in terms of injuries compared to others and I think we'll need that to continue.

    15 - Great game, some lovely running in broken play, he reminds me of Ntamack Sr. the way he glides across the pitch. Maybe could have put Lowe in? Must see that moment again

    14 - Took some great ball in the air, used his footwork well to beat defenders. Always a threat with ball in hand.

    13 - Some great defensive reads albeit a few (3) missed, flew into the tackles (thankfully didn't do damage to himself with one). Stood up big time.

    12 - Monster. He's arguably the player of the entire tournament so far. A long way from being dropped by his province not so long ago! 66m made, lovely distribution (most passes outside of the 9 and 10). His run of form is very timely

    11 - I see some people saying he was superb - I'd say he actually wasn't at his best on the whole but had superb moments, and very important ones at important times in the second half. He also had some very poor moments in the first half - there was a string of missed high balls, tackles, charged down - that may be getting forgotten. But that Etzebeth tackle was worth the entrance fee alone (and revenge for when Etzebeth went in on his knee for the great turnover).

    10 - absolutely superb, a ridiculous performance for a 38-year-old in a match like this. His fitness is critical to our chances. Brilliant in defence and made his tackles

    9 - a night to forget, I thought it was a very poor performance. Missed four of his five tackles, fumbling at the base, overran a pass... would have liked to have seen Murray on earlier. I wonder is his place under threat. (EDIT: Just remembered he did have one excellent kick to touch, that was great)

    8 - Thought he was everywhere, 13 tackles, lineout, ball in hand, most metres made of the pack.

    7 - Similar to Doris, he was everywhere. Superb workrate.

    6 - Similar to JvdF, has was everywhere. Superb workrate! Really helped settle the lineout and caused their one trouble as it went on. Not sure why we didn't use him more earlier on, poor calling.

    5 - I thought he was so-so, lowest tackle rate of the back five, lost the ball a couple of times and the management made the right call to take him off for Henderson who added real oomph

    4 - Most tackles outside of the backrow, missed a couple though. Along with POM I thought he secured good lineout ball when it was needed - was that his initial maul involvement at the end or Baird that helped secure the win?

    3 - Held his own in the scrum, still not back to his dominant best (poor workrate in defence and attack) and I wonder is he under pressure from Bealham?

    2 - A night to forget at the lineout obviously but put himself about defensively (most tackles of the front row) while missing a couple. I'd be more comfortable seeing Herring on the bench in future behind Sheehan.

    1 - A real warrior and I think possibly our most important player because of the drop-off behind him. Similar to Sexton, his fitness is crucial to our chances.

    I thought the subs all did really well and stepped it up - Murray was very composed under the cosh compared to JGP and brilliant in defence, five tackles and two crucial ones. Crowley had lovely passes right on the line. Henderson was exceptional I thought, brought real physicality that was badly needed at the time. I wonder is there a case to start him ahead of Ryan against this lot? Bealham did well in the scrum and hit 6 tackles in his time on the pitch, same as James Ryan in his time. Henshaw was busy defensively too. Was it Baird at the end in the maul?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I dunno TRC…

    You were criticising our poor form in the warm-ups cos we didn’t beat England by 30 points.

    Now you’re shrugging this win off as just a pool game, and only the QF matters.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    And if you really think there’s a question mark / frailty around the mentality of this team (with 28 wins from 30), what must you think about the other teams??



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Scotland don't need to score four tries against Ireland. They can eliminate Ireland by beating Ireland by 8 points.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I think Scotland scoring 4 tries is a more realistic goal.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,379 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    I can't see anyway this Scotland team beat Ireland. Never mind beat us by enough to knock us out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Even if we got an early red card, I could see us winning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭supermans ghost


    Well, when you factor in that Ireland are the No 1 ranked team in World Rugby at the moment, then yes failing to beat either of those countries would have to be classed as a failure. What would you classify it as?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Xander10


    What Scotland result could stop us topping the group?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    If Scotland win by 8 or more and Ireland get no try bonus, we're eliminated from the World Cup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭Zak Flaps




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭TheRona


    Just seeing on Virgin Media there them talking about Johnny asking O'Keeffe not to coach SA into avoiding penalties, which led to multiple subsequent penalties to Ireland. Really clever stuff, completely missed it last night.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,236 ✭✭✭fitz


    He was at it a lot, it was quite annoying. One of the reasons Etzebeth got away with disrupting box kicks...he seemed to tell him to step back, then ignore Etzebeth going back offside after an initial retreat. If he's offside, just penalize him ffs



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What an absolute nonsense.


    Your logic means that a No.1 team is NEVER beaten.

    That's pure sh1t stirring. I love how commenters, akin to yourself, state that world rankings are pointless and mean nothing until used in twisted way to indicate a potential failure

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This is the definition of a black and whatever argument, when things are rarely that simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Where does Scotland beating us by 8 points come from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭irelandrover




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Shehal


    It's the only way they advance just so long as Scotland win 4-0 in match points. Not realistic but from a mathematic's perspective that's Scotland path to the QF's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Ah god , if we don't get by a quarter final this time then of course it's a failure. World no 1, 16 wins in a row.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah ignoring now. Absolute bad faith nonsense



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    not bad faith nonsense. Every SINGLE person connected to that team will see a quarter final defeat as a failure.



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