The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

almostover · 24-09-2023 6:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151652#Comment_121151652

It's not, it's a song written by Phil Coulter under commission because the Irish rugby team had to sing the Rose of Tralee at the RWC in 1987. Amhrán na Bhfiann was deemed too antagonistic to those from a Unionist tradition and like wise for GSTQ for those from a Nationalist tradition. So the compromise was the Rose of Tralee which was an embrassment. Coulter composed Irelands Call as a less embrassing song that wouldn't flame political tensions. BTW prior to that Amhrán na Bhfiann used to be sung at rugby matches in Dublin and GSTQ if they were played in Belfast. The spirit of compromise was always there. Don't forget the PIRA nearly ended the life of 3 Irish Internationals prior to the 1987 RWC in another cowardly bombing. Nigel Carr never played rugby again after it.

Go check your facts.....

Fr Tod Umptious · 24-09-2023 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151692#Comment_121151692

Speaking of facts, The Rose of Tralee was never a compromise as you suggest.

It was an accident.

It is as only used once and they didn't use it again for the 1987 RWC or after.

Ireland had no anthem selected to be played at the first RWC, prior to that only home teams anthems were played at games.

So one of the players had a cassette tape of James Last Live in Tralee, they used that.

It covered here

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2023/0825/1401721-pale-moon-rose-irelands-chaotic-inaugural-world-cup/

Musicrules · 24-09-2023 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151424#Comment_121151424

I didn't say everything they did was clean, in fact I said the opposite, they shouldn't have lowered themselves to match the other side. I did say they fought the cleaner war and that's a fact. The British side targeted innocents for the majority of their attacks. You need to look up the Greysteel massacre, Bloody Sunday, Mcgurks bar bombing, the Miami showband killings, Dublin and Monaghan bombs, the Shankill butchers, Loughinisland massacre, Ballymurphy massacre, the list goes on. The British side killed over 1,000 innocents.

Now, that doesn't excuse the innocents killed by the PIRA. They should have stuck with military targets. But for the most part they did, they killed over 1,000 active combatants. It was a horrible war, like all wars I suppose but it's not lies to say that the PIRA fought the cleaner war.

almostover · 24-09-2023 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151825#Comment_121151825

I think it's time for me to exit this thread now that the argument has degenerated to who killed less innocent civilians. Who defines innocent anyway? Don't think Garda Gerry McCabe was innocent in the eyes of the PIRA, or those killed by Loyalists in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.....

Danzy · 24-09-2023 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150474#Comment_121150474

Dolores was singing to their family members.

"It's not me, it's not my family".

It was a rejection of them, as much as anyone else, it's a song about not wanting to be bothered by any one else's suffering.

Its a catchy tune, incredibly narcissistic but catchy all the same.

Widdensushi · 24-09-2023 7:38pm

Jesus lads , just enjoy the game,I am as republican in feelings as many but would sing the song happily,my interpretation of it is it's a peace song, everyone can take their own interpretation,I am well aware of the inspiration,she was a great songwriter and hit the mark ,it was past time to take the gun(etc) out of Irish politics,it doesn't necessarily mean she was anti republican etc, just pro peace.

Any politicians tweets etc are just looking for attention,if that's the issue they are focusing on they shouldn't get votes/money from it ,we don't need people(politicians)looking to profit from division, profiting from the troubles has delayed peace long enough.

Enjoy the rugby, be proud of the accomplishments rather than this shite.

Snooker Loopy · 24-09-2023 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151953#Comment_121151953

You haven't an effing clue what you're on about. The song was written precisely because Dolores and The Cranberries were very bothered by the needless suffering of other families, because of acts which wrongly claimed to be done in OUR (the Irish people's) name. Those acts of murder were NOT in our name.

https://www.irishpost.com/entertainment/behind-zombie-ira-bombing-drove-dolores-oriordan-write-cranberries-biggest-hit-147179

Written during the band's UK tour in 1993 and released the following year, Zombie is in memory of two children killed in an IRA bombing in Warrington, Cheshire.

Two bombs detonated within a minute of each other in litter bins on Bridge Street on March 20, killing three year old Johnathan Ball and injuring 12 year old Tim Parry who died five days later.

The IRA claimed responsibility for the attack, but insisted they had given two warnings prior to detonation and police had failed to act in time.

Moved by the violence, the Limerick singer penned the five minute song in a seething condemnation of the IRA and a visceral response to the death of two young children.

'It's not Ireland, it's some idiots living in the past.'

"I remember seeing one of the mothers on television, just devastated," she told Vox magazine in 1994.

"I felt so sad for her, that she'd carried him for nine months, been through all the morning sickness, the whole thing and some prick, some airhead who thought he was making a point, did that."

O'Riordan was particularly offended that terrorists claimed to have carried out these acts in the name of Ireland.

"The IRA are not me. I'm not the IRA," she said. "The Cranberries are not the IRA. My family are not.

"When it says in the song, 'It's not me, it's not my family,' that's what I'm saying. It's not Ireland, it's some idiots living in the past."

"I don't care whether it's Protestant or Catholic, I care about the fact that innocent people are being harmed," she told Vox. "That's what provoked me to write the song.

joseywhales · 24-09-2023 7:57pm

It's funny how serious people can get about the meaning of songs when in reality it's being sung by thousands of half jarred supporters just trying to have a good time, I'd say 90+% of them couldn't care less what the song means. It's a good song written by a great Irish artist, that's good enough for most supporters.

Musicrules · 24-09-2023 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151844#Comment_121151844

In all wars, innocents die, that's a part of why they are so horrible. The CAIN website has all the facts on those killed during the war. It's independent and highly respected. They showed that loyalists and the British armed forces combined to kill over 1,000 innocents. They actively targeted them. I just think it's an important point to remember when discussing the war. The PIRA, although not anywhere near perfect, were the good guys in the war.

end of the road · 24-09-2023 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151993#Comment_121151993

of course he has a clue what he is talking about, he is a well informed poster on the issue of the armed struggle in the name.

Snooker Loopy · 24-09-2023 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152090#Comment_121152090

That poster claimed the following (their words):

"Dolores was singing to their family members.

"It's not me, it's not my family".

It was a rejection of them, as much as anyone else, it's a song about not wanting to be bothered by any one else's suffering.

Dolores O'Riordan's own words prove that poster completely wrong.

"I remember seeing one of the mothers on television, just devastated," she told Vox magazine in 1994.

"I felt so sad for her, that she'd carried him for nine months, been through all the morning sickness, the whole thing and some prick, some airhead who thought he was making a point, did that."

O'Riordan was particularly offended that terrorists claimed to have carried out these acts in the name of Ireland.

"The IRA are not me. I'm not the IRA," she said. "The Cranberries are not the IRA. My family are not.

"When it says in the song, 'It's not me, it's not my family,' that's what I'm saying. It's not Ireland, it's some idiots living in the past."

"I don't care whether it's Protestant or Catholic, I care about the fact that innocent people are being harmed," she told Vox. "That's what provoked me to write the song.

You're clueless.

Danzy · 24-09-2023 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152032#Comment_121152032

This is the basic reality of it.

People belting out a song that they all know.

Reading in to them singing it as a rebuke to the Irish army or not including references to what the British army did is just over analyzing.

Most of them only know the chorus and belt that out, people are just enjoying the night and that's the height of it.

end of the road · 24-09-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152119#Comment_121152119

the poster was correct in his interpretation.

you are clueless and your scued interpretation of the war has been debunked and discredited.

Snooker Loopy · 24-09-2023 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152150#Comment_121152150

It's clear as day you're not interested in reality, only in Trump style ethnonationalist nonsense.

Bye now.

Widdensushi · 24-09-2023 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152150#Comment_121152150

So are you now happy for the song to be sang ?

Hyperbollix · 24-09-2023 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151450#Comment_121151450

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the younger (and plenty of the not so young) supporters actually think it's a song about actual zombies, ie the Hollywood flesh eating variety.

I think people on internet forums overthink things in a way that perhaps those who book flights to go watch rugby for a week for two in France and get twisted drunk, really don't overthink at all. It's a good crowd anthem in the same way lots of not very fitting songs have become popular in football stadiums across England, such as You'll never walk alone. Some tunes just lend themselves to these settings. It's a modern classic of Irish rock/pop music. Delores died young, tragically. It just ticks boxes.

end of the road · 24-09-2023 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152167#Comment_121152167

it is clear you are not interested in reality, just trump style ethnonationalist mistruths to represent the british side as innocent.

it is right that i and other posters call you out and challenge you.

end of the road · 24-09-2023 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152173#Comment_121152173

the song being sung never bothered me in the slightest.

it was snooker who got bothered over it thinking that there was some wide scale attack on it and the cramberies, when in reality it was just a couple of people on twitter, probably 1 or 2 individuals with a couple of accounts each.

mikethecop · 24-09-2023 8:32pm

Great to see the horrible creatures that the shinners here are being exposed for what they are.

ye can try to hide it or re write history all ye want but people will always remember the damage sf/ira did to ireland

prunudo · 24-09-2023 8:37pm

I'd say there's plenty of songs being sung everyday that people are willfully unaware of their true meanings. Just singing along to them because they're catchy and enjoyable.

Danzy · 24-09-2023 8:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152249#Comment_121152249

Watermelon sugar high.

Danzy · 24-09-2023 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152225#Comment_121152225

You are like an angry American trot screaming about the US army, NATO and imperialism. Some people are just instinctively against their own countries forces, its fashionable in some quarters.

Snooker Loopy · 24-09-2023 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152338#Comment_121152338

The Provos were not our country's forces. They were a criminal murder gang. The Warrington bombers were worse than Robert Thompson and Jon Venables because the latter were 10 year old children whose minds were not fully formed.

The howls of outrage and offence from Shinners over the singing of this song is delicious, they're making fools of themselves all over the internet.

mikethecop · 24-09-2023 9:01pm

the fcking IRA are not my countrys forces .its insulting for you to suggest it, they are a organised crime gang

Widdensushi · 24-09-2023 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152208#Comment_121152208

But if you don't answer it dies a death, because in reality it's not an issue, clowns of councillors etc making it an issue,it never was ,I should not answer either as feeding it but anyway.

Calahonda52 · 24-09-2023 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152354#Comment_121152354

The howls of outrage and offence from Shinners over the singing of this song is delicious, they're making fools of themselves all over the internet.

This will dial back next week once head office in Belfast realises what damage is being done to the gilded lily look.

Good to see it as the mask has fallen and they are exposed what what they are, timely when an election looming where they expect a majority: giving them defence, justice and finance

In your head, in your head

Curse These Metal Hands · 24-09-2023 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151533#Comment_121151533

Wales and Scotland have their own anthems for sports. At home games in rugby it's widely accepted that we play two anthems for Ireland. Why would extending that to away games suddenly involve randomly playing God Save the King as well?

end of the road · 24-09-2023 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152354#Comment_121152354

a couple of them were criminals, but over all they were the freedom fighting and community protection force of northern ireland so were a force of ireland.

there is no outrage from shinners apart from 1 or 2, it is you who is making an issue of this.

Danzy · 24-09-2023 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152354#Comment_121152354

That's a quare way of looking at it.

Like I said, all seems a bit old mad Trot.

Reminds me of Orwell's quote "it is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true, that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during "God Save the King" than stealing from a poor box"

Orwell was no monarchist, not by any definition but he saw the self indulgence of that type of view.

It's on trend in some quarters to knock and oppose their own country or its forces.

You are so avant garde dahling.

whippet · 24-09-2023 9:20pm

I was in Paris last night any the crowd would have belted out any song at full time .. Queens Don't stop me now was sung in a massive chorus as the Irish player did a walk around the pitch after the game

As for Zombie ... a great tune and as for someone who was just starting college around the time of the Warrington bombs we didn't want to be associated with violence like this being done in 'our name'

The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

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