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Eviction after 50 years

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Nope. THIS is what’s wrong with the housing market.

    “Probably spent more in rent over that period than to buy a home at some point. And still have nothing to show for it.”

    Of course they’ve something to show for it. A roof over their heads for 50+ years. Somewhere to start a family.

    imagine putting this stupid analogy on other services. €50 a month on electricity? €30k gone over 50 years and nothing to show for it. €20 a week on petrol for 50 years? €52k gone and nothing to show for it. You get a home, shelter, and everything that goes with it for your rent money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Well said!!


    I can add to that. I spent thousands of flights on the last 25 years and nothing to show, I should own a plane by now 🤣

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    A house co-owned with his parents! So why can't they move in there?

    Kilbarrack is on the DART line, the kids would be able to get to school in Blackrock handy enough.

    Come November 16 they'll go back to Court asking for more time because "Christmas".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    If this case was in the courts, then it must have gone through the rtb first and the tenants ignored the rtb decision.

    How does that work? I thought the rtb was set up to replace the courts for tenant and landlord disputes. Does an rtb decision not have the same weight as a court/judge decision? Whats the point of having the rtb dispute service if it ends up before a judge anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭JCN12


    The irony of Paul Murphy complaining about protestors outside his house, when his colleague in PBP Richard BB. now doing the very same.

    I feel for the executor. Tough times.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It doesn't. What is worse the RTB BBwill enforce it decisions on LL eviction's against LL's in courts but will not try to enforce eviction decisions against tenants. Therefore tenants overhold with impunity and LL have to spend a serious amount of money getting them enforced.

    On RBB I imagine these gits or there families are supporters of his and canvass for him.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Indeed. I would have thought that such a creature like Murphy wouldn't even believe in private property.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    Correct. Their "all property is theft" mantra seems to be selective. If you push some of them hard enough then they may agree that they have no issue with people owning a house and living in it themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Scratch the surface of any socialist or communist and you'll find a self-interested, hyper individual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The right focuses on "mine", the left is focused on "me" and what others should do for "me"



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    WHen this country had little or no money we managed to build quality public housing.

    The government today has apparently 60 billion euro to play with and we cannot house people.

    Please explain what has happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It was easy to find people to work on building sites because of the high unemployment. Houses were basically concrete shells without heating systems, single glazed windows, the land to build on was cheap, etc.

    Also, government has decided to move away from whole social estates due to the problems. As someone who grew up in a council estate, I have to say I agree with this policy, especially nowadays when a lot of the people on the list are not working (you can see stats for this as the breakdown of the housing list is published). Those pushing for a return to social housing estates didn't live in them e.g. Eoin O'Broin, grew up in leafy Cabinteely and went to Blackrock college.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    we managed to build quality public housing

    Where exactly is this "quality public housing"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,791 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Lol.

    He traded up to where he lives now.

    Settled his property tax bill too along the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,468 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You wouldn't have to be living in social housing to benefit from there being enough of it in the country (which there isn't)

    Anyone trying to buy privately would benefit massively from the removal of artificial competition for the houses they are trying to buy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Oh I get that. But lumping large numbers of people from disadvantaged backgrounds into estates didn't work very well. Many of the council estates have anti-social behavior problems. The people on the housing lists now are even more likely to be unemployed than they were in the 80's when social housing was the normal way working class families were housed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,732 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Politics to the politics forum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Cant speak for parts of the country outside dublin, but there are plenty of council housing developments here that are good quality and these days they sell for large sums. Most of those council houses are near the city, have large gardens as well as public green spaces, near transport, schools etc. I dont recall ever hearing about any public housing that had construction problems. The first 'flats' complexes built in the 30's were typically 4/5 stories and are now protected structures afaik and other multi-storey developments that were built in the 50/60's are still occupied.

    Agree that a lack of maintenance by the council in flat complexes can cause huge issues eg lifts not working or damp conditions, but don't agree that our social housing is poor quality or built to a lower standard than private developments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I am not talking about construction problems, I am talking about social problems. Some council estates, especially the older ones like 1950's etc, say e.g. Sallynoggin, are fine now. They have basically become gentrified. I would argue that the makeup in terms of households on the housing list is very different to what it was 40 years ago. It has been deemed a better strategy to distribute social housing among private housing estates so we don't have the same clustering of "Low Work Intensity" households.



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭JCN12


    When you look at what's happening in private estates now though, one would argue that's it's not working very well either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Yeah, well I don't disagree with that. But I suppose the government is looking at what is best in aggregate and they see that as being spreading social housing out, so everyone gets to deal with a bit of it rather than 100% of it being in some areas. I can say at least where I grew up very few went to college, I was the only person I knew who did. I suppose spreading lower income/no income out means having a few more "good influences", to the potential downfall of the unwitting "good influences" themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    A lot of the areas today associated with large-scale social housing were built as part of tenement clearances. Ballyfermot, for example, was largely populated by people from north-side tenements. These people probably wanted to stay together to preserve the communities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    That isn't the case for all problematic areas and yes, I read the same book as you (Dublin Tenement Life) quite a while ago. The area I grew up in had nothing to do with the inner city and it had plenty of social issues. Did you grow up in social housing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Anyone I know who were able to moved away. There is just too much anti social behavior from a small minority and zero enforcement from the councils. It could be just small things like kids throwing stones at your window, or more serious things like needing to stay out of the way of fairly dangerous people. I don't think it is a good idea to go back to these 100% social estates and the only people who seem to want to have never lived in one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Probably not, no. However, I think that the whole model of social housing is not going to be sustainable going forward. The current model where people who do not work (home-grown or imported) are given accommodation whilst working people are left to rent hovels or pay decades-long mortgages is financially and ethically unsustainable. Let's see what happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Surely you could build estates off the housing lists with a mix of workers/unemployed on the list to avoid ghettoisation.

    I grew up on a council estate. Would buy a house back there today if I had the money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    In Fingal it is 76% on welfare only

    That is the reality of the housing list nowadays. Across all councils 50% on welfare only. In some areas like Fingal it is much higher. In the 80's most people worked in council estates. Now the picture is completely different WITH NEW APPLICANTS.

    I think it would be best to use social estates for working people only. Maybe break half into affordable rent, allocate some of this for essential workers who need to live in the area. The other half use for social, but only for workers. Keep leases to something like 5 years. It doesn't make sense to me that people like John Brady TD would still live in a subsidised house when he has a figure salary.

    For those who have no history of working, they could use HAP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Right I know I am probably going to get in trouble from some people with this view but here goes......

    Large scale social housing was never the problem. The problems were caused by usually a few families of thugs. Any neighbours causing social issues in a residential area should just be evicted and should to be left homeless. Its the only way they will learn to behave. The councils and government are too generous to these thugs and their behaviours are then learned by the next generation. They know they are untouchable and continue to cause trouble for good law abiding residents. Parents should be fined if their kids are behaving badly etc.

    To sum up I think not everyone deserves a house - good people deserve a house and bad people deserve nothing. At the first sign of trouble they should be evicted and this should be enforced.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    The irony is those many of those very estates are actually unaffordable today - all gentrified. What most people would have turned their nose up at 30 years ago are now in high demand- whilst small houses, big gardens (relative to todays new build standards) mean extendability- and of course very close to Dublin City, for the ones I’m thinking about.

    I never lived in a social housing estate but sorry to say, when young, myself and all my friends stayed well clear of the ones near us- we were genuinely afraid even walking close by to them- fear of the unknown I guess- victims and perpetrators of prejudice at the same time - and lack of understanding.

    But whilst older and wiser, I wouldn’t want to see such estates again - some bad apples amongst mostly lovely people gave the estates a terrible name and made life very difficult for all- especially parents trying to keep their children on the straight and narrow- a lot of good people went bad on those estates



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    There are former social houses near my mother in Dublin 5 that sell for at least 500k. Houses that were provided by the state a few decades ago now are prime real estate. Isn't globalisation a wonderful thing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    What has that got to do with globalisation? The state shouldn't be selling off properties for a pittance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I think kids from council estates are a bit rougher and a bit more streetwise than the innocent little middle class lambs. At least I can say that I was much more so than say my kids are now. We are lucky enough to live in a private house in SCD and thankfully not in a housing estate, private or otherwise. My kids are nowhere near as streewise as I was at their ages. There were a few fairly rough people in the estate, one of them was even murdered in a fairly gruesome manner (won't say exactly as it would be easy to find out where I lived if I do as it was quite unique!). If you live there, you know who to avoid etc. Overall, it was only about 5% or so bad apples.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I think kids in general are less streetwise overall - while I didn’t live on a council estate neither was a ferried around in a Volvo estate 😀- it was walk to school on my own at the age of 7 onwards then bus to school on my own then cycle into city centre …on my own.

    I had a great time back in the day aged 9 or 10 hanging out in the city center whilst waiting on various extra curricular activities to start, on my own in shops like Woolworths playing with the toys, going for a burger in the newly opened Burger King etc - all before the age of 10.

    I know Tusla would be called if someone heard that happening today but back then I was a free agent going/coming to my various recreational activities- not a bother on me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Enormous levels of immigration, gruesome amounts of fiat currency, globalist investment funds....take your pick.

    "The state shouldn't be selling off properties for a pittance."

    Correct, but it did. Like a lot of decisions that were made by older generations, we now have to pay for it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Lists could be thinned out by removing those that don’t need to be on it. EU nationals who cannot pay for themselves can be repatriated. We don’t do this. Might get things moving a bit quicker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Good luck with that. Only last year, the state had leaflets printed up that informed of the generous benefits on offer in Ireland to all arrivals, had them translated into a dozen languages and distributed them all over the world. We can speculate on the reasons for this, but the intention is clear; the state wants more people here, damn the consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Ireland has in general high quality immigration, with educated workers coming here to work in the tech industry. So, population growth is good thing in my opinion. Ireland is underpopulated. Obviously, there is no reason for workers from outside the EU to be working in basic jobs like taxi driving etc, they consume more resources (health, schools for kids etc) than they contribute, so it is a net loss to have them here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Ireland's being underpopulated is often stated here. This is a very abstract thing to say, for what exactly can be considered to be an optimal population? Usually, the justification for this belief is that Ireland has less people per km2 that the UK or Holland. That's true, but it's not a question of space as much as it is a matter of available resources. We have a shortage of accommodation and enormous pressure on services.

    If we had empty houses all over the Dublin, and empty hospitals then I'd probably agree with you, but we don't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    They could probably be thinned out a bit, but I see the main issue as being the perverse incentive towards unemployment, don't work, get on the list AND get a better house than those who are working their asses off. That doesn't sit right with me. Obviously people like that still need to be housed, so they can use HAP, which is objectively worse than social housing. The other option would be they could start working and try get on the social housing list.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Accommodation can be built. The highly skilled immigrants are contributing more than they take and so are a net win. Generally people who emigrate to work are fairly driven to do well. Their kids generally do well too as they still have that hunger and memory of how difficult things can be. They are a huge asset to Ireland in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    It can be built, and it is being built. However, people arrive at a rate that outpaces construction and the availability of services. There are apartment blocks under construction all over Dublin, yet rents and house prices continue to go up. I'm sure that many immigrants are fine people, but it doesn't change the situation.

    Also, I thought that we were meant to be cutting emissions and looking after the environment. What's "green" about enormous construction projects? An empty field full of grass is about as green as anything gets.

    Anyways, I won't try to change your mind. I'm a single, childless man with absolutely nothing to lose. If the population of Ireland is content for the country to turn into some sort of globalist hub....well I've rather stopped caring :/

    Post edited by RichardAnd on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I really don't understand your points. The people will have to live somewhere, so it is better that highly skilled people are here in Ireland contributing to the development of our country. To take your second paragraph to its conclusion, if we were that concerned about the environment we could just avoid construction altogether here and have people live in tents in the green fields permanently.

    It sounds more like you don't really like the additional competition for resources that you have had to deal with. But you mentioned in other posts that you could have focused more on areas of your career to get a higher paid job and you could have bought a property years ago. That is all on you, your own personal decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    "It sounds more like you don't really like the additional competition for resources that you have had to deal with."

    I really don't see why anyone would like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,746 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A TD might have a six-figure salary, but also has practically no job security either. (which is why so many are teachers, solicitors, estate agents, publicans, landlords, etc) I suppose he could fall back on the carpentry!

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭JCN12


    One would think the family currently being evicted after 50 years, have more of an issue with greater competition for resources than RichardAnd.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    That may be so, I still think we are not quite at the point where valuable social housing should be used for serving TD's. Really if he had any decency he would give up the house and sort his family out himself. Maybe in the future when we have so much social housing we can give it away with cereal box tokens, he could apply again. If left wing TD's were not in social housing and a single FG TD was, there would be uproar about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    An empty field full of grass is basically a "green desert", it's contributing virtually nothing to either the environment or biodiversity. If we're going to dress anti-immigrant sentiment up as concern for the environment then let's at least be creative about it and advocate for all those empty fields to be planted with native broadleafs or rewetted or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Tensions rising in Kerry over newcomers in full time employment who are not being asked to contribute towards their housing costs.

    The original article I saw on MSN (now seems to have been removed) mentioned many are in full time employment and actually earning OVER the limit for social housing. But it is mentioned in this one below:

    If this is true, this should not be allowed to continue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Raising genuine concerns about Ireland's immigration policy (or lack of) is not "anti-immigration sentiment" in any negative sense. The levels of immigration to this country are placing enormous costs on people, and they have every right to raise these concerns.



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