2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

25-09-2023 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154373#Comment_121154373

Yeah the latter. Serious, long term institutional failings are becoming a massive problem quickly. Lack of governance generally in England has allowed the club game to falter but all three countries have mismanaged the development of game.

I'm getting to the 'am hoping it can be fixed' stage. Things are starting to get really concerning elsewhere, just not in Ireland.

ionadnapokot · 25-09-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143762#Comment_121143762

I stand by my previous statement!

I will add that I have the utmost respect for the SA players.

Zero respect for Erasmus.

I've also heard Jerry Flannery say this a few times now: Erasmus is a "rugby genius". It makes me wonder about the company Jerry has been keeping.

The SA squad, the 23 selected to play v Ireland and the in game substitutions and traffic light signals have been riddled with mistakes.

France will beat this SA team and it will probably be because of the mistakes of Erasmus.

Podge_irl · 25-09-2023 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154363#Comment_121154363

No. Not entirely sure how they will handle it for the US, but so far the host has always auto qualified and has just been counted as part of that pool

eagle eye · 25-09-2023 1:07pm

The whole Folau incident played a big part in what's going on.

There's players, Pacific islanders, who wanted to support Folau but were ordered not to make their views known publicly. There has been rumours of divisions in the squad ever since because those who wanted to criticise Folau were let speak.

Samu Kerevi was talking about this stuff last year for a documentary and he's still bitter about it.

If there are divisions in the squad it's never going to work out well.

I don't rate Eddie Jones either.

pixelburp · 25-09-2023 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154434#Comment_121154434

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154437#Comment_121154437

Thanks; that's pretty much what I'd have guessed was the problem were it institutional; the club game has become a bit nuts over there, presumably trying to ape its soccer counterpart as the preeminent international league, but from what you're saying this rising tide hasn't pulled up the English players alongside.

England, Wales, Scotland and Australia all having severe structural problems does bode ill for a competitive international game. Not sure what the solution is, taken as a communal one - even though it's up to the respective nations. I wonder what the critical point will be, given we've had two of those three nations crash out in the group stage before, with no apparent change in approach.

AbusesToilets · 25-09-2023 1:23pm

It's not an impossibility that Italy beat one of NZ or France either, longshot for sure.

Westernview · 25-09-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154540#Comment_121154540

Many different reasons in each of those countries for the decline I'm sure and a lot of them repairable but if a union sells off the majority of it's stake in the sport then it has lost it and unlikely to get it back. The potential for Saudi sportswashing that DMcW mentions is a big worry for the sport.

It's mad to think that english club games take place the same time as international matches. An indication that something is very wrong.

Burkie1203 · 25-09-2023 1:39pm

Australia biggest issue is the competition from NRL, AFL, Cricket, Soccer, Tennis, Golf, Motorsport etc.

Wales is just a sh1tshow. Regions v traditional clubs etc WRU income is higher then IRFU but they spend very differently.

England the biggest issue is their arrogance of the blazers. Dallaglio on BT wanting Wasps (when they went bust) to be treated differently to Worcester etc.

Conor Moore, the comedian, has uploaded a very good sketch of Eddie Jones on instagram (look for Conor_Sketches)

25-09-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154540#Comment_121154540

the club game in England is on its backside, I would consider myself a rugby fan (behind football) but I don’t overly support a rugby club (used to follow Quins a bit) and I know plenty of people like myself, international rugby is well followed but outside of a couple of clubs in the south west the club game is not well supported at all. If England were playing a six nations game pubs would be busy but you would probably have to ask them to put on a European club final (London based).

Although we often hear about the large amount of playing numbers in England, in reality it’s a marginal sport played by a few privately educated guys, for about 99% of the country it’s football and catch a bit of cricket and rugby in the big games.

AbusesToilets · 25-09-2023 3:51pm

The game as a whole needs a drastic reevaluation in financial terms. The situation is in a perilous state, and having venture capital buying up more and more of the game will lead to disaster imo.

Augme · 25-09-2023 4:25pm

I don't really understand how people can say the English game is in such a bad state. They're very likely to make it to at least the semi's of a world cup, following on from reaching a final in the previous world cup. On the club side of things, in the last 10 years English clubs have won 4 Champions Cup compared to one for Ireland. There always some negatives in there, most obviously there recently six nations results but thats provably an Eddie Jones issue, but overall I'd say they aren't doing too badly.

Podge_irl · 25-09-2023 4:27pm

Rather glossing over some recent issues in the club game there

Yeah_Right · 25-09-2023 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152557#Comment_121152557

Drew Mitchell, Matt Giteau and Adam Ashley-Cooper have one. Can't remember what it's called but saw a clip after the Wallabies lost to Fiji and Mitchell was going off about Eddie Jones. Even Giteau and AAC were surprised at the level.of anger. It was quite funny.

Quin_Dub · 25-09-2023 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155559#Comment_121155559

The 3 clubs going bust this season and the fact that no Premiership club turns a profit is the main reason that people believe that English Rugby is in trouble.

If you swapped England and Wales with say Tonga in the Ireland group and Namibia in the French group, they'd both be booking their flights home next week.

Them getting to QF/SF stage is a factor of a ridiculous draw and not playing ability at present.

Brief_Lives · 25-09-2023 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155732#Comment_121155732

Its GBRA, the good the bad the ugly Australia.. G-Bra

and it is brilliant.. a 100 times better than those tools in the UK (Alex Payne excluded)

check them out on youtube, they are hilarious.

I don't know who the chair is, they call him the professor?

OldRio · 25-09-2023 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155559#Comment_121155559

Seriously?

Brief_Lives · 25-09-2023 5:27pm

yea... seriously?

Augme · 25-09-2023 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155745#Comment_121155745

Very few French clubs turn a profit as well. Also, I can't imagine the Irish clubs provinxes would turn a profit without Government funding. The structure of French and English club rugby does make it challenging to turn a profit, that's the nature of sports. The problem is they are probably too big to switch to a model like Ireland. Producing elite rugby teams consistently is near inpossible, bar New Zealand and maybe South Africa. England I'd say are doing alright at the moment.

As for the ridiculous draw, Ireland have had plenty of those in the last few world cups and we still manged to **** it up so Wales and England still deserve some credit for not doing the same.

eagle eye · 25-09-2023 6:01pm

The problem with Premiership rugby is the high salaries being paid out.

The game has been running for well over 100 years so anybody suggesting there isn't support for it is talking through their backside.

Most teams over there had at least ten internationals, many not English, and the salaries being paid to them meant lesser players wanted more money.

All that needs to be done is limit the number of foreign players allowed per team and finances should be fine.

hold my beer · 25-09-2023 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156037#Comment_121156037

Wow is that all. Get on the blower to the RFU and tell them you have it sorted 🤣

Dubinusa · 25-09-2023 7:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153222#Comment_121153222

Oz are not a power. They haven't been for years.

PTH2009 · 25-09-2023 7:31pm

England must be grinning looking at the QF draw

Burkie1203 · 25-09-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155880#Comment_121155880

There is no government funding of the provinces.

stephen_n · 25-09-2023 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155880#Comment_121155880

There’s a huge difference in not turning a profit and being saddled with crippling debt. There are at least two more clubs in England teetering on the edge financially at the moment. Exeter have let go the majority of their first team. You talk about European success but it’s predominantly based in one club, which is also hugely in debt. Most of the Premiership clubs would be relegated if the same rules applied in the UK that do in France.

The Irish clubs don’t turn a profit. Nor do they get Government funding apart from Covid payments received by the IRFU. They are funded by the international team. A model that works well for the IRFU. The RFU can’t do it because of privatization and the debts the clubs hold.

I could be wrong but I don’t think there has ever been a draw where the top 4 teams in the world were all on one side of the draw. Or 3 of the top 5 teams in the world were in the same pool?

Rigor Mortis · 25-09-2023 9:59pm

England's descent is since the last world cup. It is largely financial and based on the failure to realise that the Premiership system is not well run. Three teams gone and more to go. The RFU has also made bad choices and seems to be heading for years of financial pain.

Dr. Bre · 25-09-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156356#Comment_121156356

They will still have to beat top sides in semis and final tho . They will be beaten by the first top side they play

Ciaran · 26-09-2023 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154453#Comment_121154453

South Africa in 1995 (an unusual situation, granted, having not played in the previous world cup) and Wales in 1999 wouldn't have automatically qualified if they weren't hosts. I assume the same will happen for the US, a world cup with the hosts not in it would be daft.

Seadin · 26-09-2023 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157053#Comment_121157053

That's not guaranteed. England have a habit of beating big sides in RWCs. Ireland are the opposite and we can only hope that if we get to the QF provided we beat Scotland that we WILL turn up against New Zealand and that the game isn't over after 20mins. We really need to get that monkey off our backs.

PTH2009 · 26-09-2023 1:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157505#Comment_121157505

And you'd feel if it's not this year its might never happen

eagle eye · 26-09-2023 3:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156327#Comment_121156327

Big laugh, go on then tell me the other issues?

2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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