Creches closing for 3 days from today

Yes - if accurate, it’s fairly ridiculous.

There is always the option for 1 parent to not work, and mind the children? Save on that 2nd mortgage.

And I'm speaking as a parent with a child in creche, and we are deciding what to do next year for our 2nd.

I could never afford to have children.

so I didn’t. Doing my bit for the planet and all that.

I would have said there “might” be an option….not “always” …but why should a good parent not have the chance to make money at home minding other children as long as certain protocols are in place? To me it makes total sense- if you can mind one you can probably mind 2-3.

Government underwriting insurance as long as certain protocols (, premises specifications etc in place) might be a way to ease the burden of that aspect - Shirley there are figures out there around accidents etc - and also defined pay outs when something not too serious does happen - not this extortionate bill that just profits lawyers.

I know of someone taking in about 5 kids to her house every day- no idea does she pay tax etc - she’s a good mother (kids all grown now) and has had the same kids for a few years so she’s obviously doing a number of things right.

I wouldn’t like to see unregulated minding take over but with certain basic protocols such as Garda vetting and certain standards in the home maintained that parents can see for themselves are in place, allowing say a stay at home parent to mind 1-3 additional children tax free if their home was suitable may well be the answer here- and that means you could leave work for a few years, have a small income to keep things going.

Creativity is what will sort this issue temporarily- we’re too caught up with regulation insurance tax etc when there are quick wins that would benefit everybody

People can earn up to €15k a year tax free from minding children in their home.

Totally disagree with the third point: the research is clear that high quality earlyly-childhood education is no worse for children than being at home with a parent. But someone with no more than a level 5 cert in arse-wiping is not guaranteed to have the knowledge and skill to provide high-quality education and care to a range of children.

A big part of the problem in the industry is the fact it's so hard to get staff. The rent in south Dublin is so high that many creche workers are unable to rent nearby. They commute for 1.5 hours each way for terrible rates. Our own creche has had to close some weeks because there is physically no staff that want to work there because the rent is too high.

I'd love to see a tax band for critical workers earning under a certain amount who are working in high rent areas. The creche workers in particular, in my opinion, shouldn't be paying any tax at all. The government tax intake wouldn't even notice it. But on the ground it would give the workers an extra 250-300 euro a month (assuming they're on about 26k a year which is the case in my local creche here).

The government should offer free childcare to families with 2 working parents, and not a couple of hours a day - the entire day. They are paying enough tax, so it's not free. If one parent stops working to mind their children, the government would lose out on the income tax, PRSI, and USC - that's not including the indirect tax take which would inevitably decrease as they tighten their belts. To make it fairer and less of a cost, a family that avails of free childcare shouldn't get the children's allowance, and they should pay for the childcare but get rebated with tax credits so the system is not being abused.

You will have the usual retorts from people who don't have kids complaining that they shouldn't have to fund childcare, but the reality is that we fund a great many things we don't agree with. If both parents are busting their asses to work and contribute to the economy, they shouldn't be penalised. We need more kids in this country otherwise we will all be goosed when we retire. People may not have kids or want to have kids, but we need them for the future stability of this country.

Side note: I have 2 kids, both in school now so this would be of zero benefit to me, but I went through the creche stage and I completely understand the issue.

You should question that with your creche - the costs of our older child went down by about 500 euro per month by the time she got to the oldest classroom (pre-schoolers).. And as far as I know that would be normal..

Although, with the demand for creches being so high, they probably can maintain the fee as you said. Because if your creche is anything like ours, there is a queue of parents down the street looking for a creche if you decide to leave it.

When did you see your wife if you worked during the week and she worked weekends?

Dropping out of the workforce for a few years definitely affects your earning potential.

She dropped down to ~20hrs a week as a nurse, worked a long shift on one day on the weekend (13 hrs) and a short one another day during the week. So, still plenty of time to see her. When do your kids see their parents when they are in creche all day (especially when young and going to bed early)?

I never said it would fully fund the cost. You could have someone on €65k and that would come closer. Perhaps their partner is on €85k - that's a lot of tax paid by 1 family. Then deduct the children's allowance and it makes it far closer to the cost.

It's also worth looking at the longer term. Say a parent earning €40k stays home - let's say for 6 years. They decide to re-enter the workplace when the kids are at school. If they stayed at work and let's say their income increased by 5% every year through moving jobs or pay raises - they would be on around €53 - €54k after 6 years.

Of course, the job might not be available because the position needs to be filled, and there are plenty of migrants who would fill it, and the position needs to be filled.

I'm not familiar with the industry so this an interesting comment to me as I wasn't aware of the 3:1 ratio.

Out of interest then I had a look at how this our ratio compare to other countries and came across this which has a lot more info so might be of interest to others so sharing here: https://www.oecd.org/education/school/48483436.pdf

You also have to consider your career - life is not all about one thing or the other, but taking 4 years out of a career will have its effects, especially if you are an ambitious professional. I'm not saying either is the right or wrong thing to do - just simply saying there is a little bit more going on then just the budget.

A big part of the issue is the governments new funding model, which stops any creches who decide to avail of it from increasing fees, is based on pre-covid modeling so its insanely out of date as regards the last 4 years of inflation, that's a huge reason why so many cant afford to keep operating.