NPWS WARDEN POWERS

grassroot1 · 22-04-2018 8:05am #1

Can anyone tell me where you can find the exact list of powers of a npws ranger/warden?

cavan shooter · 22-04-2018 8:33am

It would be in the wildlife act.

Cass · 22-04-2018 10:00am

I don't know everything but here is what i do know.

First and foremost all rangers will have a identity badge/ID. They must produce this and show who they are.
They can demand a valid license for hunting which in most cases is a firearms license, but also foreshore, deer, etc.
They have the power to stop, and seize anything they consider to be in violation of the Wildlife act (mostly game, but includes flora).
They can enter onto any lands if they suspect someone of being in violation of the Wildlife ACt, but NOT into any building or dwelling.
They can demand your name and address, but only if they suspect something is a breach of the Act and they want to verify who you are.
They have the power to search a vehicle but ONLY if they suspect it to be used i committing an offense. No searching just for the kicks of it, and they must explain their reason for stopping and wanting to search.
They can seize any documentation they believe to be fake/false. Deer permits, licenses, etc.
They have the power to seize firearms, traps, game, vehicles, etc. Anything to do with being linked to a possible breach of the Wildlife Act.
Any firearms seized MUST be surrendered/stored in the most local Garda Station to which the seizure took place within 24 hours.
They have the power to arrest or cause the arrest by a Garda. If they do it they must deliver you to a Garda station immediately.

Its covered under section 72 of the 1976 Wildlife Act as amended by section 65 of the 2000 Act.

They have a hos of other "powers", but they mostly relate to their jobs, testing, tagging, etc, etc. Nothing that really relates to us in our pursuits.

650gs · 22-04-2018 7:07pm

A few years ago a gun dealer from Templeogue, Co. Dublin and his father was charged in Co Mayo for lamping deer.
Although the judge remarked at the end of the case that they were not sports men, the case was dismissed because the warden stopped the car on a public road. apparently they dont have the power to do that.

Cass · 22-04-2018 7:27pm

I don't and won't pretend to be an expert as i'm not, but i'd hazard a guess that a very high percentage of all poachers were caught while on public roads. I know of two lads in my area that were caught and stopped on the way home. The Ranger had seen them and followed them. Stopped them, searched the van, found two deer, seized the van, deer, firearms, and then proceeded to bring them to court. They were both found guilty and lost the van, fined and one lost his license (rifle only, allowed to keep his shotgun).

I've read umpteen stories along the same vein. The Act clearly says they have the power to stop and search, but makes no mention of any limitations or prohibitions on where that search can take place. The most recent, publicized, case was the three men in Donegal done for shining a lamp on land they had permission on. They were, presumably stopped on public roads. The Act, while differentiating between AGS and Authorised person, says they have the same powers in this regard.

cookimonster · 22-04-2018 10:50pm

Was the 'illegal hunting of foxs' as stated in the link to the article coined because they lamped land that they had no permission on?

Can some one clarify why it was deemed illegal to lamp foxs if it wasn't to do with land permission. AFAIK, and please correct me there it is still NOT illegal to hunt vermin at night once you've the relevant land permission.

Walter Mittys Brother · 22-04-2018 11:16pm

In/on the vehicle and/or on a public road while lamping would be illegal?

Cass · 22-04-2018 11:35pm

cookimonster wrote: »

Can some one clarify why it was deemed illegal to lamp foxs if it wasn't to do with land permission. .

For the same reason it was for deer, but because they had no deer they couldn't be prosecuted, because using a lamp (whether from a vehicle or not) is classed as hunting.

The definition of hunting is the search for quarry so using a lamp is technically and legally the same as if you have a rifle. The illegal part, i'm assuming, came from the act of doing it from a vehicle and by shining the lamp on lands they had no permission to hunt on.

The act of lamping for foxes is legal when it's NOT done in a car and only on lands you have permission to be on. I'd also assume the 60ft rule applies.

cookimonster · 23-04-2018 12:49am

Got you, I never thought of the car aspect.....minor hommer moment, I was illogicaly applying the 'lawful practice' of lamping to this case.

meathstevie · 23-04-2018 4:09am

Powers of stop and search generally relate to persons, vehicles, vessels and stationary aircraft in a public place. In most situations searches of private buildings require warrants which is not covered under stop and search.

Grizzly 45 · 23-04-2018 11:38am

Cass wrote: »

The act of lamping for foxes is legal when it's NOT done in a car and only on lands you have permission to be on. I'd also assume the 60ft rule applies.

From a public road or from a vehicle??

Cass · 23-04-2018 12:43pm

meathstevie wrote: »

Powers of stop and search generally relate to persons, vehicles, vessels and stationary aircraft in a public place. In most situations searches of private buildings require warrants which is not covered under stop and search.

Correct as per point four of my initial post:

Cass wrote:

They can enter onto any lands if they suspect someone of being in violation of the Wildlife ACt, but NOT into any building or dwelling.

cookimonster wrote: »

Got you, I never thought of the car aspect.....minor hommer moment, I was illogicaly applying the 'lawful practice' of lamping to this case.

Had a similar moment some time back when a lad could not get a license for a 22 pistol because the mag was 10 round and the Super wouldn't accept a block in it. I kept on telling him to just get the restricted license not once realising it's not the gun, but the restricted licenses that cannot be got. In my head restricted meant centrefire.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

From a public road or from a vehicle??

You cannot discharge a firearm within 18mtrs/20ds/60ft of a road (centre) and lamping from a vehicle is the same a shooting from one, legally, and cannot be done. Only exception is checking livestock (iow not hunting).

garv123 · 24-04-2018 12:14pm

Cass wrote: »

Correct as per point four of my initial post:

) and lamping from a vehicle is the same a shooting from one, legally, and cannot be done. .

This is the funny bit, the go by the definition "to search for" which is what you're doing while lamping.

But people do it all the time deer/pheasant shooting in daylight and no one bats an eyelid.
Drive along, spot something out the window, off they go to shoot it. Same thing..

Cass · 24-04-2018 12:26pm

During daylight you're not using a lamp. As they cannot regulate your eyes (at least not yet) they cannot do you for it.

As for the rifle during daylight. You can drive around and look, but once you don't shoot from the car you're golden.

meathstevie · 25-04-2018 1:22am

NPWS has successfully prosecuted people in the past for duck shooting from boats while under mechanical propulsion. It doesn't only apply to cars or tractors....

Using a lamp from the public road while on foot on the other hand is perfectly legal.

If you wanted to get really technical about it you can't use for example the front wheel of a tractor that's been parked up in a field as a support to take a shot at a deer, lying prone on top of a disconnected flatbed trailer on the other hand is perfectly legal.

howa .223 · 12-05-2018 7:27pm

Isn't there a section 35 or something you require to lamp in the first place? I may be wrong.

juice1304 · 12-05-2018 8:19pm

howa .223 wrote: »

Isn't there a section 35 or something you require to lamp in the first place? I may be wrong.

You need a licence to lamp deer, normal lamping is fine.

howa .223 · 12-05-2018 8:43pm

My bad it's actually section 36 had to go refresh the auld rulesðŸ˜€

Cass · 12-05-2018 9:35pm

howa .223 wrote: »

Isn't there a section 35 or something you require to lamp in the first place? I may be wrong.

Decoys, etc.

howa .223 wrote: »

My bad it's actually section 36 had to go refresh the auld rules&#55357;&#56832;

Mechanically propelled vehicles.

I think you means section 38 of the 1976 act, as amended by section 45 of the 2000 act, which states using a lamp, light, dazzling device, etc. for the hunting of protected wild birds/animals is an offence. The exception being for those carrying out research, tagging, etc. and only then under license.

You don't need a license to lamp for foxes or other no protected species.

howa .223 · 12-05-2018 10:27pm

However, if you wish to hunt from a vehicle (with or without a lamp regardless of whether the vehicle is stationary or moving), you must apply for a specific licence under Section 36 of the Wildlife Acts 1976 to 2012. An application for a license under Section 36 requires the applicant to specify the areas where he/she intends to hunt (county and townland) and the period for which the licence is required.

This was what I was referring too, not exactly stating if it's for vermin control but had heard day of it.

cookimonster · 13-05-2018 7:18am

howa .223 wrote: »

However, if you wish to hunt from a vehicle (with or without a lamp regardless of whether the vehicle is stationary or moving), you must apply for a specific licence under Section 36 of the Wildlife Acts 1976 to 2012. An application for a license under Section 36 requires the applicant to specify the areas where he/she intends to hunt (county and townland) and the period for which the licence is required.

This was what I was referring too, not exactly stating if it's for vermin control but had heard day of it.

You must also specify the species you are hunting. If you do a quick search you will find that until recently there was no actual application form although provisions where there to issue a permit. Now you will find an application form on the NPWS website. After an inquiry I have been told that they are actually issuing them, so it's not just for window dressing. The applications are assessed by the local ranger and passed on to the main office for the final decision. It isn't just a paper exercise.
I would be in the mind set to advise lads to get them, let's make the whole thing of applying for them the 'norm' and if lads need to use vehicles for what ever reason then everything is above board.

Cass · 13-05-2018 10:39am

howa .223 wrote: »

However, if you wish to hunt from a vehicle (with or without a lamp regardless of whether the vehicle is stationary or moving), you must apply for a specific licence under Section 36 of the Wildlife Acts 1976 to 2012. An application for a license under Section 36 requires the applicant to specify the areas where he/she intends to hunt (county and townland) and the period for which the licence is required.

This was what I was referring too, not exactly stating if it's for vermin control but had heard day of it.

Ah, i thought you were referring to lamping as per your first post:

howa .223 wrote: »

Isn't there a section 35 or something you require to lamp in the first place? I may be wrong.

But if you meant driving a vehicle then section 36 covers that as does section 44 of the 2000 act.

howa .223 · 13-05-2018 2:12pm

Sorry for the confusion bud, it's been a while since I needed to read up on the rules.

dto001 · 26-08-2023 10:37pm

I’m sorry to rehash this discussion but I think it might be prudent for the coming season!!!

can anyone tell me if how far the rangers can go in relation to the new lead ban can they do me if I have lead cartridges in the car but I’m out shooting and have steel on me? Can they search my car on the basis they think there’s lead shot in the car but I’m outside and have steel shot with me? Or can they come on to my boat if I have steel shot and show them it but they still want to search it? Do the have to have a valid reason or can we expect a ranger just trying to ruin your shooting?

someone told me today that they can take a shot mallard and check it for lead shot, do they have some onus of proof or just “they think so”

cheers

Grizzly 45 · 27-08-2023 1:56pm

Can they search my car on the basis they think there’s lead shot in the car but I’m outside and have steel shot with me? Or can they come on to my boat if I have steel shot and show them it but they still want to search it? Do the have to have a valid reason or can we expect a ranger to just try to ruin your shooting?

From the start of the thread Cass's OP

They have the power to search a vehicle but ONLY if they suspect it to be used in committing an offence. No searching just for the kicks of it, and they must explain their reason for stopping and wanting to search.

My take on this,not any legal advice...

IOW they must have, and explain their probable cause for stopping and searching your property. I'd question going from the original whether that entitles them to frisk you. But one thing I would do as with any interaction with people in authority is record all interactions with your phone, and esp STFU about anything apart from your mandatory required information. Which any lawyer will tell you to do anyway.

So they have to have some good reason to suspect that you are going to with or from, are going to, or have used lead shot in these areas inc the buffer zone of 100 meters. I doubt a "Nah, just checking that you do !" will qualify. Also, it's pretty easy to check for steel shot,all they need is a magnet to test that it's steel.

someone told me today that they can take a shot Mallard and check it for lead shot, do they have some onus of proof or just “they think so”

Again all they would need is a magnet as that's what EU game dealers and hunters have been using for the last 20 years to pull steel shot and to stop dentists from getting rich on chipped teeth and crown work for folks biting on steel shot.

Rows Grower · 27-08-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/106799309#Comment_106799309

Correct, the NPWS rangers do not have the power to stop someone driving on a public road.

There are only three types of people authorised to stop you driving on a public road, Gardai, Customs Officers or School Traffic Wardens.

J.R. · 27-08-2023 6:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034125#Comment_121034125

There are only three types of people authorised to stop you driving on a public road, Gardai, Customs Officers or School Traffic Wardens.

I also thought that these can legally stop traffic:

A qualified banksman -a person with a Stop/Go sign who is authorised by the Local Authority
A person in charge of animals

Themole1990 · 28-08-2023 5:14am

I don't no much about npws but I made a call to them a couple of season's ago....actually an English man he was and told him about a man poaching on our lease taking in clients and asked could they do anything as he is well known for this in the area I was told not there problem contact the gaurds just curious as to would that be right when I contacted the gaurds they said call npws and still this man is seen at times obv9we work Monday to Friday and he's on the dole so he's going in mid week we had pictures of him on the lease with deer and a firearm and still gaurds did nothing or npws

deerhunter1 · 20-09-2023 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/106799481#Comment_106799481

Cannot see myself stopping for anyone at night especially if I am carring a firearm, unless I can assertain that they are uniformed gardai.

Even at that I wouldnt stop, maybe drive to nearest station or call gardai to assertain that they have personal the area.

Cass · 20-09-2023 9:18pm

Well it's been over 5 years since I posted that, but yeah, it's your own call as to what you do. I only give the information as best as I can and what you do with that is your own business.

Mellor · 21-09-2023 1:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135821#Comment_121135821

Refusing to stop for uniformed guards might be play out as calmly as you suggest. Fine if the station is around the corner, if it is 10km away, it's wouldn't be clear that is what you are doing.

deerhunter1 · 21-09-2023 2:34pm

Known it to happen, well within your rights

Feisar · 27-09-2023 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121138869#Comment_121138869

You'll have to explain that one to me if you don't mind.

deerhunter1 · 27-09-2023 3:45pm

I done it many years ago, unmarked car,in thf middle of nowhere, put in blue lights ,didn't stop till I drove to nearest busy village/town, uniform waiting for me at checkpoint, got thick with me, explained myself for safety reasons, nothing they could do

otmmyboy2 · 27-09-2023 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165098#Comment_121165098

Yup, was actually recommended by the CPO when he came round here once years ago after a spate of fake unmarked cars in the area.

Grizzly 45 · 27-09-2023 9:48pm

Not only that.Fake blue police/emergency lights can now be downloaded and come as standard on some phones nowadays![The Tank being one]With a D reg and undercover cars not having the giveaway twin antennas on them anymore, and the SB /PC Gardai being able to "scruff up" for undercover work it would be easy enough to impersonate and ambush the unwary out in the middle of nowhere.

Feisar · 29-09-2023 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165098#Comment_121165098

Interesting, I thought you'd be in the doodoo!

otmmyboy2 · 29-09-2023 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171740#Comment_121171740

There is a law(somewhere, not going looking for it now) around not obeying garda instructions on the road(ie to pull over in this case), but since you are pulling over, just in a place you feel safe to do, so there is little they could argue against it with.

And if it ever found it's way to court it would be laughed out by the judge, even without transporting a firearm and or ammo.

In one of our driver's instruction classes in school the girls(because we were still sexist in those days🤣) were all informed by the instructor(ex garda driving instructor to boot) not to pull over if they did not feel safe, but instead ring 999 and tell them that you were being signalled to pull over by a car with blue lights but you did not feel safe and were going to drive to the nearest station before stopping and could someone meet you there.

The one girl I know who did so had the garda car behind her turn off it's lights a few moments after the call ended and followed her to the station with a sergeant waiting outside where both spoke to her. Didn't penalise her at all for doing so, and said they had been called from control to turn off the blues and follow her to the station.

A rare moment of sense in an otherwise senseless world 😋

Grizzly 45 · 30-09-2023 1:21pm

I see NPWS are looking for mugs...er.., candidates again.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=180455&campaignId=23462010

Rescueme0007 · 09-10-2023 8:42pm

At the salary scale the NPWS are offering I will be amazed if they attract enough talent to fill the vacancies available.

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NPWS WARDEN POWERS

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