Homey – Low cost, Intelligent Smart Home

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 5:57pm #1

You’ve heard all about smart homes and you want to try it out.

Maybe you want your heating to come on in the Livingroom, but only if someone is home and its a cold day?
How about turning on all the lights and playing loud music, when motion is detected outside, but only if its night-time?
Or you want to install an electric gate to close automatically, if nobody's at home?

You start searching online and find this forum on boards. You quickly discover that that what you want is not as straightforward as you thought. There are lots of so-called smart products out there. But, unless they're all from the same company range (think Philips Hue lights) they don't work well together; if at all. You can go to a small number of specialized installers who will charge an arm and a leg to (partially) give you what you want. You will then be totally dependent on the (small) range of products they provide and better pray that they don't go out of business. Otherwise, it appears that you’ll have to get someone technical to build a bespoke solution, with something like Home Assistant, that only they understand and can keep going.

Maybe, just maybe, all this is going to change. Homey allows people build advanced smart home solutions, with minimal or no technical knowledge. Their products works with a wide range of off the shelf devices, ranging from lights, to heating to sound systems, and that list is growing. Scenarios such as the above can now be implemented, without requiring any technical knowledge or specialized companies.

There are two options on offer:

Smart Home Management as a service or Homey Premium €2.99/m. This is cloud based and costs. It allows people to dip their toe in the water, at very low cost. A trial of up to 5 devices allows potential customers to try it out with their devices before they commit to any subscription. If users are happy with the cloud based service they can add additional devices by buying the Bridge. The bridge is a one off cost of €69. The bridge is necessary to allow devices that could not otherwise be connected to the cloud, be controlled. Personally I think that this option is a no-brainer and I’m going with it, for now.
Buy your own Home Hub - the Homey Pro €399 once off. This is a new device, still under development. It would appear to provide a more off-the-shelf alternative to solutions such as Home Assistant. However, even the Homey Pro is likely to require some technical knowhow to set up and maintain. Whether it is worth the money, or not, time will tell. If users like the functionality given by option one, it might be worth the investment in the future, given the advantages I highlight in post 4.

I started this thread in the hope that Homey will actually deliver on its promise and allow any competent DIY’r build a smart home. I came across it by chance and I really like its ease of use. I have no connection with the vendor, or commercial interest of any kind in their products.

I hope that users will add their experiences of what works well, and what doesn't. While a lot of information posted is likely to be technical this doesn't mean that building your smart home has to be difficult. The only requirement is that you have web connected devices that are supported by Homey. If you have, implementing the options I gave at the start takes minutes. No technical knowledge is required.

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 6:01pm

Brief Introduction to Homey.

To get started you need compatible devices and the free app. The free app allows you to test your existing devices before making any commitment.

If it looks promising you can try a free months subscription and its then € 2.99/mo after the first month.

So far I've tried tried a range of smart bulbs, Philips/Ikea/Lidl, all connected to a Hue Bridge. They work really well. The only niggle is that you get a ‘techie’ message when you try to configure something that's not possible. (e.g. trying to set a white-only bulb to green, on St Patricks day.) However that gets sorted when you're setting up the rule and doesnt impact day-to-day usage.

My Resideo Evohome heating works really well. I can set the temperature in each room based on a wide range of parameters.

My Sonos speakers are a work in progress. They can be controlled, but I've yet to automate playing playlists. (Think turning on lights in the livingroom, and playing music, when motion is detected outside...)

Eufy devices are not currently supported.

LG and Samsung TV - these require a Homey Bridge or Homey Pro

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 6:03pm

Homey Bridge

From a practical perspective the bridge allows devices be controlled that otherwise you might have no means of controlling. It also means that you need less controllers (think Philips Hue Hub, Lidl smart hub etc.). Apart from allowing more devices to be controlled it uses exactly the same app and connects to the Homey service in the same way over Wi-Fi. The Homey bridge gives direct local access via Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Zigbee and Z-Wave. It doesnt support Thread or Matter.

Review here.

... and here.

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 6:06pm

Homey Pro

From a user perspective the big advantage of the Homey Pro is that information storage and home control is local, rather than on Homey's servers in the cloud. I think that this independence is a really big deal. Even if the Internet goes down, or if Homey goes out of business, your smart home will still be smart! (Many 'smart' systems are useless if the Internet goes down and will be piles of junk if the company goes out of business.)

The Homey Pro can be used to control a very wide range of home devices. As it supports Matter and Thread natively it can be expected to support most new devices alongside their wide range of existing devices legacy protocols. Unlike Home Assistant no additional hardware is required and connecting new devices is generally straightforward. (If this thread progresses it is likely that thre will be deep technical discussions about connecting some less common devices. However, this should be the exception.)

More info here and here

emaherx · 25-09-2023 6:57pm

Why would you pay a subscription when you can get all of that and more for free with Home Assistant?

I can only guess you are some way involved with homey as the above posts are blatant advertising and most likely against the forum rules.

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 7:35pm

@emaherx very disappointed with your comment. I took the time to write the posts in the hope they would be of benefit to the Boards.ie community. I have no hidden agenda or vested interest of any kind. I came across Homey by chance and consider it the most promising smart home solution I have yet come across. Within 10mins I had integration with my heating, lighting, smart plugs and sound all set up. Based on that, I decided to start this thread.

I take it that you are invested in Home Assistant, in some way. I can understand that - it is a very powerful, flexible system, with lots of uses. I have played around with it myself, using Linux on a Virtual Machine. I even have an app set up on a wall tablet. It was not difficult for me to set up, but then again I have vast experience in IT and integration. I would not consider it suitable for the general user, aside from enthusiasts and IT professionals.

I hope we can leave it there, surely there is space for multiple views and approaches on this forum?

0ph0rce0 · 25-09-2023 7:42pm

ALEXA "Discover my devices"

Sorted. Free too 🤷

Nice write up though. Looks interesting. I'll take a look at youtube and see what's up.

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156638#Comment_121156638

I prefer Google Home, myself. :)

emaherx · 25-09-2023 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156614#Comment_121156614

I don't for a second think Home Assistant should be the only option in town, just thought the posts above read very much like promotional material.

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156708#Comment_121156708

I deliberately targeted the posts at the general reader, to attract a broader audience to the forum. In that sense it was very much promotional material, intended to pique their interest. They can dip their toe in the water, so to speak, at minimal effort and no cost. Hopefully, some will become regular contributors, bringing value of their own. :)

emaherx · 25-09-2023 8:51pm

What happens if you build up an all bells/whistles smart home with Homey and then stop paying the subscription? Does it continue working locally or at all?

NewClareman · 25-09-2023 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156920#Comment_121156920

Seriously?

Read post number four.

emaherx · 26-09-2023 5:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157470#Comment_121157470

Yes seriously, seems like an important consideration, post number 4 doesn't fully answer that question.

What does a user gain and or loose by paying the subscription or not. If it simply continues to work then is there a need to pay at all? Is the subscription just for remote access? Or is it required to add more devices?

Edit: Nevermind found this on the website:

Purchasing a Homey Premium subscription has the following advantages:

You can connect more than 5 devices.
Homey will automatically log measurement data to Homey Insights.
You can use Logic in Flows.
You can create Logic Variables and use them in Flows.

After cancelling your Homey Premium subscription, your Homey Premium subscription will stop renewing automatically. The subscription will be valid until the end date.

Once your Homey Premium subscription has expired

All your existing devices will be become unavailable, except for the first five added.
Homey Insights will stop logging measurements & energy data.
Homey Logic will become unavailable in Flows.
All your existing Homey Logic Variables will become unavailable.

Once you reactivate your Homey Premium subscription

All your existing devices will become available again.
Homey Insights will resume logging measurements & energy data.
Homey Logic will be available in Flows.
All your existing Homey Logic Variables will become available again.

So if Homey goes out of business or you don't pay the subscription, the smart home becomes useless, limited to 5 devices and flows wont work.

emaherx · 26-09-2023 6:36am

@NewClareman Just having had another look at the site, your posts above seem to be talking about 2 different products which is a little confusing.

Homey premium @ €2.99/m - which looks to be cloud reliant and will stop working if you don't pay the subscription.

Homey Pro €399 once off, which is expensive enough + €29 for an ethernet adapter - This looks far more interesting despite the price as it is local but when you look into it's potentially not that different to Home Assistant. It uses flows similar to Node-Red and / or javaScript and potential for custom addons but if you go too far down that route then HA starts to look appealing again. While it may continue to work if Homey goes out of business without updates the device still has the potential to go out of date quick unless the hardware is open.

NewClareman · 26-09-2023 9:07am

I thought I was clear but I've now summarised the two options on offer, in the first post.

Yes, reliance on any cloud-based service brings risks and in my opinion should never be relied on for important capabilities. That is exactly why I installed the Resideo Evohome heating system in my home, rather than less expensive systems such as Tado which are basically useless when cloud connectivity is lost. Similarly with Philips Hue, the core control capability is local. Homey gives additional capabilities to both, but they continue to function without any cloud access.

Building rules using Homey is in no way comparable to using Node-Red and / or javaScript. Yes, the end result might be the same, but the journey is very different. With Homey, complex rules can be configured, tested and saved in minutes. No coding or technical expertise is required. (As an example I set up smartplugs to turn on using the time of day and date, in minutes.)

I agree that the Homey Pro is expensive and I'm not yet convinced that its worth the cost. To me it is the commercial equivalent of Home Assistant. Whether the greater ease of use, and prebuilt integrations are worth the money, I simply don't know at this stage. I suspect it is for the general public as solutions such as Home Assistant require technical expertise to set up and maintain.

Look, there are horses for courses and I believe that Homey has a role to play. It gives sophisticated capability for €2.99/m, whats not to like?

emaherx · 26-09-2023 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121158038#Comment_121158038

Look, there are horses for courses and I believe that Homey has a role to play.

I won't disagree, my questions on what happens when subscription lapses were genuine and absolutely should be considered by anyone thinking of jumping in. That model wouldn't be for me I think there are too many cloud based IOT solutions looking for just a small fee but they can add up quickly, I'd far rather host my own.

The Homey Pro does look a lot more interesting as an off the shelf competitor to Home Assistant or any other smart home controllers, I think it's still a little expensive and should have ethernet as standard but can see the market for it, but I would sooner pay the higher once off price than a sub. There is always going to be a line when you can integrate potentially anything where it will compromise either the UX or the functionality, having the option of custom code / space to tinker is probably a necessity.

NewClareman · 26-09-2023 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121158262#Comment_121158262

The reality is that the core market for the Homey subscription service is for people with smart devices who would like more features. For them, Homey gives them a massive increase in smart home functionality at a very modest cost. If they come to rely on that increased functionality they then have the option to move it to the Horney Pro, giving them ongoing control. For most people this should not be necessary - if they lose the additional functionality given by the Homey service they will still have the original functionality of their devices. The far bigger risk is that the companies selling the devices being controlled, lights, heating suppliers etc. will go out of business.

Anyway this thread has strayed very far from its original purpose. I wanted to encourage the general boards community, who might have no interest in technology or tinkering, to give home automation a try. I would say to them to them that the Homey service is worth a try, if only to see what can be achieved for very small money. Who knows where the experience might lead you. :)

emaherx · 26-09-2023 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159861#Comment_121159861

The reality is that the core market for the Homey subscription service is for people with smart devices who would like more features. For them, Homey gives them a massive increase in smart home functionality at a very modest cost. If they come to rely on that increased functionality they then have the option to move it to the Horney Pro, giving them ongoing control. For most people this should not be necessary - if they lose the additional functionality given by the Homey service they will still have the original functionality of their devices. The far bigger risk is that the companies selling the devices being controlled, lights, heating suppliers etc. will go out of business.

The above is the same for all of the home controllers and there are many, to be fair that is and always has been down to individual device manufactures some are not an issue at all as they conform to standard protocols that have been around for a long time as well as a few newer ones coming on stream now. There is no easy fix for cloud dependant devices and neither Homey nor any other home controller will offer an easy solution, there are a few more hacky options but definitly a discussion for elsewhere.

Anyway this thread has strayed very far from its original purpose. I wanted to encourage the general boards community, who might have no interest in technology or tinkering, to give home automation a try. I would say to them to them that the Homey service is worth a try, if only to see what can be achieved for very small money. Who knows where the experience might lead you. :)

In what way has it strayed? if anything the discussion so far has clarified a few things including the subscription model and the fact there is a subscription free option, is that not something useful for any new users considering taking the plunge? It definitly cleared up my understanding. Your revision of the first post is far clearer too.

NewClareman · 26-09-2023 6:53pm

Just found out that Eufy devices are supported, but only with the Homey Pro. The integration uses the same Eufy Security private API as the Eufy App does. It is possible that that API does not allow access to the Homey cloud services. In any case it is a bummer...

emaherx · 26-09-2023 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160758#Comment_121160758

Seems they rely heavily on community contribution for app development for both products, it is probably just the case that someone took on Eufy for Homey Pro but no one has for Homey Premium. It's also likely that Homey Pro is generally going to be more appealing to community developers and there for have faster development of such apps.

NewClareman · 27-09-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160798#Comment_121160798

The Eufy integration is built by a core developer, so thats not it.

emaherx · 27-09-2023 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165383#Comment_121165383

Has community tag on the webpage, official apps have an official tag.

https://homey.app/en-ie/app/com.eufylife.security/Eufy-Security/

NewClareman · 27-09-2023 5:27pm

You're right Martijn Poppen is not an employee, he's a volunteer developer since 2020.

I suspect that official apps are used where manufacturers are part of the 'The Talks with Homey Program' and community apps are used for most other integrations. It is extremely unlikely that Homey would use community integration as part of a commercial cloud service, particularly where an API is explicitly flagged as 'private'. That would explain why the Eufy functionality is only available on Homey Pro.

emaherx · 28-09-2023 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165618#Comment_121165618

https://homey.app/en-us/store/product/homey_developer_athom_12m/

Looks like you 'could' be depending on Eufy to develop the App and potentially pay for the privilege............

NewClareman · 28-09-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168074#Comment_121168074

If you found this thread and are considering dipping your toe in home automation, don't worry if this goes over your head. The key point is that if your device is supported by the Homey Cloud Service, it should work seamlessly for some time to come. :)

So, on reading further...

Community Apps are only available on the Homey Pro. That makes sense, for any commercial use of a third party API it is normal that a legal agreement is in place. In any case, there is no guarantee that community apps will continue to work. For example, it would be trivial for for Eufy to change their API, already flagged as private, to remove access. I'm sure that Eufy are well aware of the approach being used by the Homey community developers, they are in the public domain; and tolerate them for now.

Initiatives such as 'The Talks with Homey Program' are the only commercial alternatives to walled garden solutions, where all equipment must be bought from one vendor. Those who sign up for the program commit to maintain their API, ensuring that their devices will continue to work with Homey, for a contractually guaranteed period. Such certainty is essential when offering a commercial product, or service.

Solutions such as Home Assistant are brilliant for enthusiasts who can deal with ongoing changes themselves. They are entirely unsuitable for general use, unless as a minimum, they have a strong commercial underpinning. (Something like Red Hat Linux, as an example, which drove the widespread industry use of Linux.) Imagine charging a customer to automate their home and a few weeks later their Eufy devices are no longer following their routines correctly. Many issues can arise when using integration without any legal/regulatory underpinning. These could be a trivial or much more serious. Imagine an automated vacuum/washer device, destroying an expensive carpet, due to unpublished changes in a device API. (That is at the lower end of what could go wrong!) The company/installer concerned would soon be out of business.

Initiatives such as Thread and Matter will not solve this issue, no more than previous standards such as Zigbee did. Yes, more devices will 'talk' to each other but it is entirely unlikely that most vendors will allow interconnection without a license, or fee. Even if they do allow access for enthusiasts building local solutions, that is not going to be the basis for a global home automation industry. There is simply too much money at stake.

ablelocks · 03-11-2024 4:56pm

i came across an article on homey today - looks good to me with eufy, philips hue, Tado, echo systems. home assistant too techie for me i think

has anyone actually bought the pro and if so, how are you getting on with it - the cost is a bit steep, but for one central solution in the long term it might be worth it for a non-techie like me?

NewClareman · 06-11-2024 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794970#Comment_122794970

No, the online service meets my very limited means. I still think it is a good option that requires less effort than Home Assistant. (I'm not trashing Home Assistant, I've used it myself. However, it does require some technical knowledge and is not suitable for the non-hobbyist, IMO.)

Homey – Low cost, Intelligent Smart Home

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