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Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The whole freedom of movement debate was utterly toxic during the referendum campaign. It was spun that EU workers were a huge drain on the British economy and holding it back and therefore the only solution was to leave the EU. They were supposedly driving down wages and leaving the working class much worse off - scarcely a word mentioned about all the positive things they were bringing to the table.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd



    wages have gone up because the pound has gone down. That is **** comical.

    labour rates were low because there was plenty of supply in the labour market, that supply has reduced and so wages are going up. That isn’t pro brexit, racist or some tripe from the daily mail, it’s simple **** economics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    The purpose of Brexit was to avoid the changes to offshore tax avoidance the EU were to address. It's not going to be a vote winner to point out to the hard of thinking that Brexit was going to benefit the extremely rich.

    The Tories always sow division, it's an old English trick that is used to their advantage in Iraq, Northern Ireland, Kuwait, India, in fact anywhere they pulled out of they left the division they used as an excuse to "help" the chosen side.

    So if you are going to sell something to make people worse off, then lies and racism targeted at the hard of thinking is a tried and tested technique.

    A quick view of the garbage in the Mail, Britain's most popular tabloid rag provides an indication of the political acumen of the readership.


    The East Europeans created jobs in the service sector. What drives down wages in the UK are zero hours contracts and jobs artificially subsidised because so many people claiming benefits in the UK are working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    You might find it comical, but the UK is not self sufficient in food. It has to import to survive. Look at its balance of payments sometime.

    The hilarious thing is that a lot in the UK never understood that the exports they are supposedly shifting easily are costing more for the energy to produce them and the raw materials to process in order to start the process.

    Now a little clue might be Britain's exchange rate coupled with a higher inflation level than the Eurozone.


    My UK company was always looking for staff, it didn't matter what nationality as long as they did the job.

    We supplied various projects worldwide, mainly in Europe.

    The company has gone now, it folded about a year after the referendum.

    I know it sounds complex, but if you employ Norbert and he was happy to work for a kg of cheese prior to Brexit, Norberts cheese would cost at least 15% more if bought in quids.

    If he wasn't paid the increase he would starve or go home.


    On top of that, Norbert would be public enemy number two to anyone with a brain cell shortage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    oh good lord. Please stop.

    If you advertise a job for an electrician at £10 an hour and no one applies, then you deduce that all the electricians are employed and have to readvertise it for £11 per hour and so on. That is how a market rate is created.

    If there are a lot of unemployed electricians (maybe they have just moved over from Poland, for example) then there is a good chance they will apply for the job at £10 or £11.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think the point your missing is that with a weakened currency imported parts and labour cost more.

    On the other hand we had a move to England timed around the Brexit vote so suddenly our euro income was worth 15% more the night after the brexit vote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    That's the point though, you are no longer importing labour at the same amounts, so the overall supply is decreasing and ergo the cost of labour is increasing. Supply and Demand.

    it has nothing to do with cheese.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The issue with some posters is they want the benefits of low-wage economies, cheap beer, cars, and some housing, they themselves won't be the ones doing the low-paying serving, cleaning, nursing, and caring.

    Post edited by mariaalice on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    This is the crux of it all. We'll have our own challenges in Ireland with an increasing ratio of dependents to workers in the future, but I'm optimistic that we won't be lured like Brexit voters into the belief that domestic imbalances could be fixed by leaving the biggest trade bloc in the world.

    I remember reading at the time of the Brexit vote there were as many voters over the age of 55 as there were under, and the returns suggested that the leave vote was overwhelming with the older voter. What they didn't appreciate at the time was that so many services that an aging society needs were dependent on EU staff, and with a weakened currency and family related visa hassles the only EU healthcare workers they're attracting now are those needing a few years specialty experience before moving on to better conditions elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Of course it does, the cheese costs more.

    The traditional low skills jobs are dying, look at Wilco and the number that are unemployed.

    I lived in an area that had large numbers of East Europeans, they saved the potteries and shops were thriving.

    If you look at the many items about my city now it's derelict.

    If every single thing you buy in costs more, particularly the basics such as food energy and council tax, then your labour costs go up regardless of the job availability.


    As I tried to explain before, the UK imports food. If wages didn't go up to cover the cost, can you explain what you think might happen?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    You’re talking about inflation. Wages are part of that and both react and contribute to it.

    wages are outstripping inflation though, particularly in lower skilled jobs.

    you’re all over the place with your logic though. The uk imports a lot of food, but so does everyone and a lot of those imports are stuff that is not grown in the uk, rather than staples. How many banana or avocado farms have you seen in Stoke?

    the biggest factor in food at the moment in addition to Brexit, is the invasion of Ukraine where a lot of animal feed and fertilizer is produced. That’s why milk, eggs and pet foods have gone through the roof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    Are they?

    Before brexit the UK had the lowest wage growth in the oecd, even Greece did better by 2020.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    its only recent, but labour rates are now going up higher than inflation, which obviously feeds in to the inflation figures as well, so it should mean wage growth is quite high. There’s also low unemployment and employment as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭Emblematic



    Apparently the equivalent in the UK for FTB would be about 533 assuming most of them have mortgages and adjusting for population.

    https://www.confused.com/mortgages/first-time-buyer-statistics



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Must be why so many from the third world want to go there, even risking their lives.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭Emblematic




  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I'm talking about the drop in the pound after Brexit and in particular its losses against the EU.

    The day after the referendum everything brought into the UK cost more.

    UK employees are not like Stonehenge, a fixed item only having an impact on the local environment.

    I obviously cannot explain the situation to you, but let me put it this way I worked directly for UK and Irish companies throughout my career.

    I have property and money in both countries.

    I worked all over the world, with all nationalities, I know how market economics works too.

    Maybe you got your ideas from the British gutter press, to be honest it sounds very much like it.

    They lie, Brexit was sold on lies.

    Eastern Europeans were a major asset to Britain, they are being replaced by none EU workers, but that does not get much mention in the Tory rags.

    If you want to know how Britain is doing and how it works buy the Independent or Guardian and don't bother with the BBC.

    It's funny since I arrived here with my new Irish passport after Brexit, people are constantly telling me how Brexit is still making Britain the land of opportunity and how the EU that I am still part of is depreciating or becoming a military force or breaking up or some such rubbish.

    I act in accordance with my personal economics and experience, I do know a little of what I'm talking about.

    How do you explain to a bunch of IQ zero's that the country has gone from 164,000 visas for foreign workers in 2016 to half a million this year and the Christmas rush for work has not even added to that figure yet.

    You see the simple thing is when you have conned your muppets with lies in order to get them to vote for a self harming package, then you don't publicise the news that would shake their faith in racism, do you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    Do you have a link verifying that wage growth has been greater than inflation in the last two years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Terrier2023


    The countries who colonized Africa are getting their karma now however i dont understand how we ar ealso getting some of that karma after all we were colonized also. Our country particularly North Dublin and many small vilages are a little 3rd worldish when you need to give 2 weeks notice to see a GP. I grew up ringing the doc in the morning and seeing him / her that same day.

    Not enough teachers nurses policemen doctors or hospital beds certainly not enough mental hospitals. I was in the lovely capital and there was man of colour walking around naked in Dublin **** hell we need huge new prisons for the increase in crime and huge mental facilities since the whole world is worried about their mental health.

    The world is becoming much more homogenized and individual cultures are being slowly diluted eventually to be wiped out good old Soros wants no borders anywhere and its looking like his wet dream is becoming a reality . So dont bother looking to the 3 rd worldish UK its out side your door too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Typically, we Irish regard ourselves as wealthier than other countries based on our GDP. What many forget, however, is that our GDP is heavily distorted by the presence of multi-national corporations running profits through the country to avail of low tax.

    A better measure of financial well being would be disposable household income per capita. This is gives an idea of the sort of money we have at our disposal. Using this measure Brexit Britain is actually higher than Ireland.

    Ireland: 33,000

    UK: 36,800.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    So the UK beats us in

    • Disposable income per capita: 36,800 vs 33,000.
    • Numbers of FTBs getting on the housing ladder per capita.

    Ireland, however, beats the UK in the percentage of families availing of food banks:

    • 10% (Ireland) vs. 3% UK.

    I'm not sure we're well placed to be judging the UK to be honest. Sure we don't like that the UK walked away from the EU, but it doesn't seem to have done as badly as people make out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Terrier2023


    no do you have one to spare id love to read the one you are reading ! I am merely commenting on what i can see it doesnt bother me much as it doesnt affect me i live away from it all surrounded by my own land and i dont sell any sites so no one can live near me . Not everyone has that luxury and can avoid the neighbours that are forced on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Terrier2023


    Of course he rejects that facts as they reflect what a bad prime minister he really is !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There's no way the poor are worse off in Ireland than they are in the UK. Standard social welfare rate in Ireland is €220 per week (£190), old age pension is €250 per week (around £215).



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    No it's because many that want to go speak English and have connections there.

    If you look at Britain's history you will find that they were quite generous with their British nationality, providing all and sundry with the "honour" of citizenship.

    That didn't of course become relevant until transport became cheap enough for Britain's commonwealth citizens to start "coming home" to see this paradise all their wealth was being shipped to.

    The friends and relatives are still there, even though the passports were rapidly stopped.

    Of course when you blow populations to smithereens, then I suppose there is a natural affinity for the bombers that spared you. I worked with an Iraqi in Birmingham, a brilliant person It was hard to understand how someone like him could be so nasty and selfish as to have oil under his feet. Asking to be blown to bits he was!

    I never asked him why he was in England working as a colleague, I regret not finding out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Possibly you are using too narrow a statistic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Back then I don't think there was any cheap travel. People would have left the West Indies and India mostly in the expectation that they might never see home again. In the same way that Irish people going to America and Australia never came back. I know the Windrush ship had a cheaper than usual fare, but far from affordable for many.

    The biggest example of subsidised fares was out of the UK. Around one million went to Australia on the Ten Pound Poms scheme. The Australians only wanted white people to advance their economy. Enoch Powell made the same point about the masses being able to invade England with the advance in travel technology after WW2. But I'm not sure how well that argument stands up. Tens of millions were able to go from Europe to America long before any of that advancement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    He could well be Kurdish. I recall them being the largest number of asylum seekers at one point back in the late 90s, most coming from Iraq.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Well I guess the influx of Indians and Pakistanis was the trigger to stop it fairly rapidly.

    When I went to school the only significant migration was Italians and Poles who's parents must have fled WW2.

    We must have been more intelligent as a race then because there was no hate or bigotry at all.

    Schoolchildren reflect what goes on in their house, they don't see the need to hide racism like adults :-)

    The Indians and Pakistanis were about twenty years after, That caused a problem for the hard of thinking and British passports were not dished out like sweeties any more.

    They would have arrived when air travel became cheap. Passenger air travel to London started in 1947 with propeller driven aircraft, so the route was established and the flood gates opened with jet aircraft.

    The Pakistani community was what swung a lot of people toward Brexit in Stoke. The poor muppets wanted them sent home along with the East Europeans.

    Racism is not the domain of those with functioning brain cells :-(



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    He was university educated and whatever his background he did say if he stayed in Iraq military service was compulsory. What a terrible waste killing each other seems?

    It makes you wonder why there is so much enthusiasm for it :-(

    He seemed happier with his electrical designs though, I think Saddam should have just donated some cash to the Tories and bought a knighthood or two like every other sleazy lowlife.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    You are obviously not a racist, but floodgates is the sort of thing they say. Wikipedia does not support the contention that the floodgates opened with jet travel. The population is large enough to absorb those numbers, just as they did with Irish people.

    "How many immigrants settled in the UK every year in the 1970s?

    In the 1970s, an average of 72,000 immigrants were settling in the UK every year from the Commonwealth; this decreased in the 1980s and early-1990s to around 54,000 per year, only to rise again to around 97,000 by 1999. The total number of Commonwealth immigrants since 1962 is estimated at 2,500,000."

    "Between 1951 and 1961 over 500,000 Irish migrants came to Britain, whereas approximately 90,000 went to the United States in same period."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    So…you’ve visited the 3rd world, you’ve lived in the UK….and you’re spotting comparisons.. can you enlarge?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Britain is currently the worlds 5th largest economy…..are you a bit mad?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,258 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    unsure what thread this best fits in but its hilarious. UK air traffic control and o'leary honest as ever




  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Was there recently thought standard of living didn’t seem great at all. People shabbily dressed and things looked poorly maintained . When I came back I could clearly see the difference. Know a few brexiteers who are very sorry now that they voted to leave. We look prosperous here in comparison though know we’re in no way perfect either. They do have a much better transport network than us though I’d say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    I think you mean Labour. It was Blair that insisted on invading iraq to look for mythical weapons of mass destruction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Sorry my use of the term "floodgates" was in comparison to the odd one or two "novelties" brought back to gawp at in the Victorian era.

    I try not to be a racist or a bigot, but tribalism worked for the human race in a positive way for centuries so the trait is hard to shake. Alas it's an inbuilt switch that is so easily toggled by those that want to manipulate others.

    How many people came to England never bothered me in the slightest. I still know more English people that I would happily see on a boat to Rwanda or someplace, than migrants.

    I guess my mother was one of the 500,000. The best gift she ever gave me was the citizenship of this country. I think that knowing a little about the history of my ancestors provides me with a different perspective of Britain's place in the world.

    I used to frequent a few English museums and they had a far more candid expose of Britains past than the more popular schoolbook versions.

    So despite being born in England and spending the best part of a lifetime there, I never did quite see people migrating to England as "them" somehow.

    I think anyone looking back on the history of this country would find it difficult to condone Britain's approach to refugees and asylum seekers.

    They are a tribal bunch though. I recall two football teams fans entering a pub in Dublin years back. That wouldn't happen in my town. The home and away supporters were separated with different pubs and police steering them around town and back to the bus and train stations after the match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    I’m just back from Liverpool at the weekend. “people shabbily dressed” is the funniest part of your post. I think you dreamt you went to England.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Visiting the UK is not the same as living in the UK, in todays world most Irish who move to the UK, its London or Manchester or Liverpool and if it's not a big city it is Brighton or somewhere similar, they are not moving to some social deprived area in the north of England. The UK is not a third-world country, it's got education and health care, and it's a parliamentary Democracy. That does not mean there is no issues though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    Have you been around Manchester and Liverpool?

    Some of the material poverty I saw there I hadn't seen in Ireland since I worked beside slums around sheriff street in the 80s.

    Leveling up is a slogan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I have family in Manchester but they live in the nice bits 😂 There is a big media presence in Manchester and it is a financial hub so most Irish going there today are going to be hanging around the city or Chorlton and drinking in trendy bars. I agree you do not need to go far though to see real poverty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,664 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    That's what I was thinking, but then I thought hang about... maybe be meant the US instead of the UK? Give it a few years and Trump-election and I can see a lot of the happening. Ok, maybe no the last one and the coups might not be military based, but....

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,664 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/lively-strip-tucked-away-hipster-24317966 The point is an individual can live somewhere and completely ignore the poverty all around them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Not many Brits can afford their parliamentary democracy, in fact most don't contribute to the Tories at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    Even Chorlton was shabby and bad for theft/burglary etc.. anyone with money **** off to Wilmslow. I think Roy Keane lived out in Knutsford.

    When I first saw Salford I assumed they were still clearing rubble from the blitz, but now, it was all from the 60/70s slum clearances.

    I said it already in this thread but it wasn't until I was standing on the main street in Rochdale overwhelmed by decay and economic decline that I finally understood why someone would be taken in with the hopium of brexit.



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