Garda Industrial Action - someone convince me they aren't attempting a massive swindle here

A 2019 report for AGS management found the roster Harris wants to go back to was unfit for purpose even then, now with fewer Gardai available to work it, it's even more unworkable.

The pre-Covid shifts were shorter, so they switched to more condensed working (12 hrs x 4 shifts instead of 8 hrs x 6 shifts).

Tell that to all the medical staff working 12 hour shifts.

I work 4 12 hour shifts. I have to be as capable of going in the last hour as in the first.

This is holding onto a very, for them. Handy roster and in time a way to get rid of the commissioner. Imo.

This is it in a nutshell. If there is an extra cost due to unsocial hours or some other reason then the GRA should make concessions, there will never be concessions because they want their cake and eat it. If the "New" 12 hour shift Rota needs tweaking then they should sit down and discuss it like adults without all the posturing.

Having a vote of no confidence in the Garda Commissioner was just showing themselves to be unreasonable. Kick him in the teeth and then complain when he wont give you concessions, very clever negotiation tactic. Sometimes I wonder who is actually strategizing these things.

The pre covid roster was 10 hour days not 8.

When the OP has a completely incorrect claim in it, it's very hard to take any of it seriously. Sounds like someone else with a chip on their shoulder over AGS. They work the same hours on average over 3 months, as per the law. Gone from more 10 hour shifts to less 12 hour shifts. Better for them and their family, this whole work/life balance craic that everyone else seems to be allowed to benefit from. Not including the heroes who work beyond their scheduled times of course.

Every other thread about AGS where this is brought up, it's easily answered by the rosters being the straw that broke the camels back in a series of ongoing and every worsening issues, not just the roster. Harris is such a good commissioner, he's insisting on bringing in a roster that simply won't work and will be net negative for everyone involved. The vote of no confidence was correct.

I've worked both rosters as a Garda. The 12 hour one, while still crap, are so much better than the 10 hour one. I'll take 4x12 hour shifts with 4 off afterwards over 6x10 hour shifts in a row with 3 days off afterwards (the very first roster I worked in AGS had 7x8 hour night shifts, 36 hours off and back into 6x8 hour day/evening shifts). The members on the ground doing the work have seen the small benefit the 12 hours gives, with no monetary impact to speak of (or god knows people would be shouting it). Why wouldn't they want to keep that? And it's better for AGS in general, if it was staffed properly, which it's far from.

AGS don't have a union, they are blocked from having one, so what the GRA are and what they do is of vital importance to the Garda rank, even if they don't always do things right, it's better than nothing. Which is what the government and Harris want, a shut-up-and-do-what-we-tell-you approach. Gardai are people too.

I fully support their industrial action. Bodycams should have been a thing when I quit around 10 years ago, and they're only being trialled next year. Standard family hatchbacks with lights and sirens attached for patrol cars. Constantly far below required amount of members needed to do the job effectively. Zero government support. Zero management support. An ever increasing society where the bad guys don't go to jail, where there's hundreds of people with hundreds of convictions each walking the streets, terrorising their communities. An entire generation of untouchable violent youths. And a general public who think they're all the same, all corrupt. The job, from what I can tell, has only gotten incrementally worse since I left. Pushback was and is bound to happen when the camels back finally gives out, and it has.

Overpaidand under worked. Won't get support from me. Our national police are an embarrassment.

The 6 on 4 off was brutal. Your sleep patterns were cruel and inevitably you would have court on rest days.

The roster was under scrutiny before the Emergency Covid. It has been deemed as not fit for purpose.

If people who write like that do not support the Gardai, then I do support them.

Solidarity with the boys in blue.

I have to admit, it's hard to have sympathy when you read stories like these..

Of course the Judge should have been asked why he let the member away with it regardless, but this is all part of the wider problem in the justice system.

Or the other story in that article..

While those involved were sanctioned by disciplinary procedures, it's very hard to feel sorry for Gardai when they not only get away with stuff like this at the time, but are enabled by their colleagues. Were it not for the media reports would it ever have come to light?

The entire standard needs to be improved. It seems very little has changed since the days of writing off penalty points for connected folks or breathalyser test discrepancies - both of which led to the rather transparent rebranding of Traffic Corps to "Roads Policing" to try and get away from the image.

Yup but convenient timing or not, the reports themselves are still concerning in that little seems to have really changed in terms of professionalism and accountability - unless caught out and exposed in the media.

In 2012 the Westmanstown Roster was introduced and agreed upon. This was the first time since the 1970's AGS changed their roster. The previous roster was eight hour tours seven days on two off, seven days on two off, seven days on three off.

The Westmanstown Roster is a six day on four day off roster worked over a repeating ten week cycle. This roster introduced a fifth Garda unit to allow for an overlap of units at certain times. In 2015 the Garda Inspectorate released a report stating this roster was unfit for purpose. In 2018 the Future of Policing In Ireland commission found the roster was inflexible, didnt allow for effective supervision and was unfit for a modern police force.

When Covid hit in 2020 AGS were given 72 hours to move to the current roster working twelve hour tours four on/four off. This roster has become popular with members as it allows for better work/life balance. In 2021 Drew Harris stated he was unable to return to this roster as he did not have enough Gardai (approx 14,200 at the time) Furthermore the crossover of Units was only 18 hours a week leaving 135 hours where units were short in manpower with no crossover of units.

In 2022 Harris tried to introduce the Mahon roster where core units remained on the Covid roster and specialist units worked eight hour tours seven on, two off, seven on three off, seven on two off. GRA and AGSI both rejected this for obvious reasons. When this roster was defeated Harris informed Gardai he was returning to the Westmanstown Roster. This will mean disbanding or serious reduction of Gardai attached to Community Policing Units, Crime Task Force, Drugs and Detective Units. Many local policing forums have written to Harris outlining their objection to this roster as this will severely reduce Garda visibility and their ability to provide an effective public service.

Thats the background of the saga. Harris has been told if he delays the introduction of a roster everyone knows won't work by even three months progress could finally be made if all parties enter talks in good faith. Last night, in an attempt to discredit Gardai, Harris the Garda Commissioner revealed allegations that 4 Gardai engaged in disgusting behaviour. Whilst the behaviour described in grotesque and an insult to all members of AGS it is 4 people out of 14,000 and for the leader of the organisation to throw the entire force under the bus to divert attention from him is far from leadership.

It seems he is much more inclined to speak to journalists rather then his own people.

I don't know why there isn't more discussion about 12 hour shifts.

I've heard that it's illegal for medical staff to work a 12 hours shift in Australia because of the risk to patients.As the poster says, I do not believe anyone can work effectively for 12 hours.Then they have to go in and do it again the next day. And we're told that these are exhausting, stressful jobs. There is no doubt that performance must suffer when people are exhausted.

Nurses in particular never stop moaning about how exhausting a 12 hour shift is (which I can well believe) and yet they won't give them up. In the interest of everyone's welfare and given the compromised performance, I don't think they should be allowed for Gardai or medical staff.

The ex RUC man is probably on borrowed time, its hard to see how he can keep the job in the long term if the rank and file have no confidence in him.

McEntee wasted no time saying it was nothing to do with her, probably too busy working on her pet project.

Pretty accurate. It should be made clear that the Westmanstown roster was not a permanent roster. The rep bodies agreed to give it a go on a trial basis since the roster had to change due to the previous one being in breach of the working time agreement. It was never accepted as a permanent roster though which is what senior management seem to be implying to the media.

It is also hard to label the previous talks as negotiations when one side (Harris) just lists his demands and is completely unwilling to show compromise, especially when rosters have been put forward that are not too far removed from what he wants but offers much better work and life balance.

The major issue that needs tackling is the recruitment and retention issue. If it continues to worsen as recent trends are showing then no roster is going to make the service work. It's not far away. There seems to be no will to address it either at government level or senior management level. It is the primary factor that is driving the disillusionment and frustration which led to the no confidence vote. Members watching colleagues leave each week to other jobs while the leader of this country calls them all "a bit silly." Serious lack of awareness but it will be interesting to see how bad it gets before the government wake up.