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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To be honest I'd love to see the details of the fails for context.

    But that aside, depending on the scheme, following failure and rework, the pass rate was 95%+.

    I'm honestly delighted to see such inspections.

    I would hope they are done at random though, and result in a penalty of some sort for the contractor. Not necessarily harsh, but something that escalates would be a good way of addressing such issues.

    Something along the lines of this in terms of fail qty within a 3 year period

    • 1-3 = Notification
    • 4-6 = Required retraining for all involved in the work for each occurrence plus inspection of 20% of all properties for 6 months
    • 7+ = 90 day suspension from grant schemes plus retraining plus increased inspection to 40% for 6 months
    • 10+ = 1 year removal from grant schemes plus retraining plus increased inspection to 50% for 12 months

    Or something like that.

    From another report I found the following also

    • 39% of the retrofits under the “better energy warmer homes” scheme were inspected
    • 18% of retrofits under the “better energy homes” scheme were inspected last year

    That's honestly higher than I thought would be inspected



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    Another good example of how a negative report / headline can be spun into a positive pr. Spin over substance a hallmark of modern politics



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Preferring that there would be no inspections is a weird position to take but ok



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    For the EU to be more self sufficient and independent it should have started 40 years ago with increasing (instead of diminishing) nuclear power for electricity. If we want to maintain a modern, stripped down, less wasteful and simplified society we actually need all the oil and gas we can get, including fracking. Renewables can never replace hydro carbons unless you want to do away with both industry and large transportation (trucks, airplanes). It can add to the mix and increase its percentage depending on the country. You still need plastics for things like pharmaceutical products. And you need steel so coal (cokes), pig iron, iron ore etc. And cement. If you want to live without those products it means an economic collapse, deprivation and likely civil war. Plus other areas taking full advantage of our self inflicting wounds and suicide pact. But even if the whole world was on board of the Green Enterprice there are not enough trees to replace the stuff we make from hydro carbons. In fact, we were running out of trees prior to using coal.

    All these things cannot be dismissed. Yet, the insistence on a rapid, green transition still seems to be prevalent in many established political parties, supra national institutions and the media. It is shameful and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    It's as infeasible as continuing the trillions of tonnes of coal oil and gas we've been burning globally to keep the lights on (and leaving us with trilions of tonnes of waste products in the form of slag and ash and water and air pollution)

    Ok, so you agree the green energy transition as currently conceived is infeasible. That's progress.

    The best way to prevent people from dying from deadly heatwaves is to stop global warming from making large regions of highly populated areas uninhabitable to humans.

    Yes, but since you agree the current green approach is infeasible, the next best thing is to look at developing terawatts of nuclear and providing everyone with aircon. And that might just mitigate global warming for you too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    When the cost of fuel keeps rising and it becomes over a certain price it will become prohibitive to keep the car. Unfortunately not everyone has access to good or better than good public transport and need a car to commute to work, visit family etc. Option one is to keep paying high fuel costs, and tax too, or switch to a Bev car getting rid of an otherwise good car.

    What price will fuel be when the differential between monthly fuel costs and a car loan payment are nill or it is cheaper to have a small loan? I don't know, but I can see it coming



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I don't know the exact time, but a new more efficient car (EV) pays it's carbon down in less than a few years. Keeping old inefficient cars on the road really is the wrong thing to do if you are concerned about carbon emissions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭Shoog


    If you read the article SEAI say most failures are minor and easily rectified. Not to say that's acceptable but that's why you have a compliance inspection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Because your back of the envelope guesstimate trump all the analysis done by those transnational bodies.

    All those negatives you predict are going to happen if climate change isn't addressed. Collapse will be worse since all the temperate countries will be swamped by climate refugees from the countries hit by unsurvivable temps which can no longer support them. If we decide refugees cannot come here then progressively more resources will have to be diverted to repelling the waves of migrants placing us on a virtually perpetual war footing.

    There are no easy solutions but ignoring the driving problem will lead us into a very deep hole.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭Shoog


    This is the issue with relying on an unpredictable and expensive fuel like diesel/petrol. The price increases we are paying at the pump are mostly down to market fluctuations and these are likely to keep happening and drive prices even higher as supply of crude gets harder to extract.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭Shoog


    How you extracted him saying the green transition was unfeasible from what he said is beyond me.

    Not solving the underlying problem but treating the symptom is not a solution to our problems. The patient will still end up dead in this scenario.

    Expanding nuclear to the fantasy level you suggest is just as unfeasible as you suggest renewables are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    My interpretation of what is said here

    Is that a new ev and a new ice car will have the same total of emissions after approx 20k km.

    I couldn't find data relating existing ice cars to new bevs but I would imagine the emissions from an existing ice car would be small compared to the total emissions involved in extracting materials, building and transporting the new car to the garage door. Would love to be wrong though.

    And just to put my position out there, I am pro improving the environment, pro penalizing the polluters, but would have different ideas about how that should be done. For example I would increase tax on new goods, and reduce tax on spare parts, reduce tax for repair shops, be they electric, clothing alterations or otherwise and try to prolong the life span of goods, and stop throwing stuff away so much



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You are incorrect, most of the emissions from a car is in the usage not the manufacture. That is why a 10 year old car with 20% lower efficiency will be worse on emissions overall than replacing it with any new vehicle.

    Life time analysis is a complex thing to perform and easily skewed by the choices you make upfront. It is often used to deceive about the underlying reality of a situation by making unrealistic assumptions. You should always be wary of the source of any such analysis and compare different studies to get an idea of the truth.

    I agree that things should be made to both last and to be repairable but sometime advances in technology make holding onto outmoded items the wrong choice. Take for example a modern digital amplifier with efficiency of over 90% and compare it to an old class B transistor amp with efficiency of around 50%. Computers are another example where old computers idled at 100 watts and new ones idlel at less than 10 watts.

    The energy rating system is designed to drive such efficiencies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ginger22


    And you have evidence to support that. I would like to be educated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Totally agree. What bothers me though is there are people out there who think these greenies are right & everyone else is wrong😱😳



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Of course I do. Carbon taxes here aren't revenue neutral though. They take money from one cohort and give it to a different one. For it to be truly revenue neutral, then, as the carbon taxes increase, other taxes taken elsewhere would need to be reduced by a similar amount. No matter what way you slice it we have an additional tax with no corresponding reduction in taxes to offset them.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The government are quids in when it comes to rising fuel prices. For every €10 extra to fill a tank they're getting an extra €1.87 vat



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    I had to open dacors post as it was copied and pasted.

    AGAIN, here we have greenies assuming things to suit their one tracked mind. I got news for You: my back door is open & the beautiful aroma of turf burning is wafting all around me. What proof do you have for your ‘less than 11%’?

    The sooner there is an election so you dictators are obliterated the better.

    FYI: I’m all for doing my bit for the environment but please stop spewing BS for your cause. All ye are doing in turning more & more people away from doing good for the environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's a lot like people bemoaning the high mortgage rates we have in Ireland while at the same time supporting legislation that makes it extremely difficult to have defaulting payers removed from a property. The cost of this policy is just borne by all the people who do pay their mortgage or rent on time and costs then 10's if not 100's of thousands more in repayments.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Revenue neutral simply means the tax increase is offset by either a decrease somewhere else, or a grant.

    It doesn't mean that every individual pays exactly the same tax. It is intended to provide an incentive to change behaviour. But if the individual continues exactly as before, their tax bill may increase, while, others who avail of the grant may have an overall decrease in their tax bill.

    On a Macro scale, these schemes tend to work over the long term. Even if you personally don't buy a brand new EV today, you will need some people to buy them so the market for used EVs is affordable in x years time. If you can't afford a heat pump today, you'll benefit from the existence of a supply chain and trained network of Heat pump installers later on when you need to replace your old oil burner.

    Your hypothetical example assumed everyone kept consuming the same as before. That conpletely misses the point of the tax

    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's news to me. I am currently driving an almost 17 year old car. (My wife and I both work from home and don't do anywhere near enough miles per year to justify financing a new BEV, we got rid of our 2nd car a few years ago). We're looking at a used BEV but the price point is still a bit too high for something that fits our family (that's rapidly improving)

    We're hoping to get at least one more year out of the car we have if it passes the NCT next year but it will definitely be our last Ice vehicle



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Diesel and petrol are expensive here because of government policy. Remind us all how much duty is on a litre of each fuel and then calculate it as a percentage of the over cost. When you've done that, don't forget to add VAT in on top.

    Both fuels are still relatively cheap at the market level. Government interference is making them more and more expensive.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Didn't 98% of them later pass a repeat inspection?

    Does any house get built without any snag list?

    All building work should be inspected



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So you're OK with increasing global average temperatures by more than 3c then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There isn't enough Uranium. And my infeasible comment was deliberately facetious.

    It's not unfeasible to do something just because it's enormous in scale if it replaces something we're already doing that's on an even more enormous scale



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    You are describing wealth redistribution, which is the Green movements primary goal. Carbon taxes tend to be highly regressive. People on low incomes driving old vehicles pay high taxes to supplement rich EV drivers who have their tax bill reduced. Renters pay higher electricity prices to subsidise homeowners with rooftop solar.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The price point depends on the mileage the user is driving, and how fuel inefficient their ice car is.

    If someone is driving a really inefficient gas guzzler 40k kms a year, then it's already cheaper to pay a loan and buy a BEV. You're still not gonna scrap that car if you can sell it to someone else for more than its scrap value

    The same car might make sense to keep driving if you only do 5k kms per year.

    Essentially, higher fuel prices are a really good way of organically replacing the oldest and most inefficient cars first. While people may scrap the car getting 30mpg and buy another Ice that does 50mpg until BEVs filter down the used market and become affordable enough to replace most Ice vehicles as they age out of the fleet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




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