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Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

1679111216

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    It seems as though the same people who were opposed to HS2 are now opposed to it being curtailed.

    I really fail to see what the issue is with building high speed rail. Surely it is the way forward and the best way to stop people flying and driving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    It will be a balancing act, like the new 15% Corporation tax rate that came in from worldwide pressure, not just the EU. Ireland couldn't ignore the political pressure from the US in particular on it, so had to go along with it.

    So like we've always done we'll go along with the prevailing mood, but keep looking for the loopholes.

    10 years ago people thought Ireland would be heavily affected by rule changes, the Apple case a great example, look at how that turned out. You've the ridiculous situation of a government strongly objecting to extra tax revenue, and defending a company that was acting extremely greedily to avoid taxes.

    Corporation tax receipts have gone off the scale, leprauchan economics and all that. The government avoided the last crisis by letting companies bring Intellectual property rights to Ireland, they can't believe themselves how much Corporation tax they are taking in.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    NIMBYism.

    The UK's biggest cottage industry by a long way is people shutting down any sort of development whatsoever using a bedazzling array of reasons, some perfectly legitimate and some pathetically desperate. Opposing HS2 is one of the easiest thing an MP from an area where it's going to pass through can do whereas the long term benefits will take decades to materialise.

    Sadly, all a lot of UK people care about is themselves. We saw it with Brexit where it was fine for bad things to happen to everyone but me. Same with housing. The pulling up the ladder mentality is alive and well here.

    I remember one development was shut down because of an alleged threat to local wildlife. Turns out it was a project to redevelop an abandoned airfield into housing. Some developments should be opposed of course but there's a really ugly sense of privilege and entitlement here that's truly disgusting.


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Italy has been ruled by the communists? I must have been slept through that day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    So, so true. The men and women who were elected were total disasters, but we're so lucky the other lot didn't get a chance to show their mettle.

    I think FFG have a job in their propaganda public relations section for you!



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    I would guess a few million Ukrainians are happy for a start, but I guess the Russians are the good guys to you comrade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Not ruled, but the main opposition party after WW2 to about 1990. They had a brief period of supporting the government from the outside in the late 70's, bit like the Tallaght strategy from FG in the late 80's and FF supporting FG a few years ago. They ran a lot of the local councils which gave them a lot of power, by far the most successful western Communist party.

    The CIA was always worried about Communists in Italy taking over and ran various schemes and operations during that time.


    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    That's a bit of a leap there mate. I didn't realise we were discussing the Ukraine situation.

    Oh, wait - maybe you think that UK & 3rd world = UKraine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The problem with the UK privatised rail network is would not work that way - it would cost 4x the price of a flight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    While that might all be true, the CP never ran Italy.

    I seem to remember someone writing that it was about as radical as the British Labour party, which did hold the reins on several occasions.

    As against that, one government minister in Italy (maybe even a prime minister?) at one stage was reputed to say "The Italian government is not unstable. I've been in government ever since the second world war".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Looking back Johnson and Truss was such a sh!tshow it is hard to imagine what Corbyn could have done to make things worse.

    In hindsight May at least had a decent grasp of the issues, but the combination of hard Brexiteers and Remainiacs made any sort of middle ground impossible. She was the sort of technocratic leader who also almost certainly would have handled Covid a lot better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    When I moved back to the UK during Covid what shocked me was how normalised food bank collections seemed at supermarkets. Unheard of when I first emigrated back 2012.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    at worst corbyn would have been a little bit above the tories, at best he would have began the process of modernising britain and some of the damage done would be on the way to being undone by now.

    but we will never know.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    UK not third world exactly but definitely in decline.

    Our senior civil service and the more intelligent politicians were correct to pursue the long term strategy of decoupling.

    Even the west Brit Bono thinks that Irish reunification is inevitable.

    From an Irish perspective, there is little to celebrate about our closest neighbour and long term partner being in decline.

    We have much in common with them, and the hand of friendship should be extended, as they've done with us in the past.



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Corbyn was not fit to be PM. He couldn't even say he would be prepared to use his country's nuclear arsenal in retaliation for a nuke attack on his country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I wonder how they see themselves sometimes.

    They continually propose grand projects for 'the North' (seems to be anything beyond Birmingham lol), but then scrap them afterwards claiming 'they cost too much ', yet always willing to spend a fortune on London and environs.


    Their media and institutions accept incredible class discrimination with not a peep out of them. Even the tabloids doff the cap to their betters.

    Aristocracy still own about a third of the country. Yet the working class turkeys regularly vote for Christmas there i.e. Tories .

    The police were even arresting people who voiced any disapproval of the monarchy during the coronation recently.


    Strange country starts to look more and more out of place in the modern world.


    The biggest issue is the toff classes don't have the talent to run the country and the cream isn't rising to the top (many smart people in the UK). Now they have a super rich kid trying to prove he cares about cost of living. Well Liz Truss was grammar school so I suppose failure could be ascribed to the political class in general.


    PS I also agree, generally speaking ,it's better off to be middle class or upper class in the UK, in Ireland you get absolutely hosed with taxes and fees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    You might want to read up on Italian political history. The Italian Communist Party - despite being in opposition - had around 33% of the votes in Italy throughout the 1970s. My point was that the entire political landscape there, fascism followed by the emergence of a large Communist party among multiple other parties, was deeply fractured and unstable up until the 21st century i.e. not a good example of how political systems or coalitions operate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, they've never really modernised with their class system : it's almost feudal in nature. I've had quite a benign view of their monarchy for most of my life, but now I'm starting to think it may well be contributing to the huge inequality in society there. The millions of 'subjects' genuinely thinking the toffs and aristocrats and members of the Conservative Party are their betters and people who need to be looked up to. In most countries, a toff clown like Jacob Rees-Mogg with his fake intellect would be laughed at by the public.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    to be fair he was very much fit to be pm, as much as he wasn't perfect (no politician is or will be)

    but in comparison to junk like borris johnson, sunak and truss, there is no doubt he was a much much better bet.

    it could be argued that to state either way whether a country would or wouldn't use it's nuclear weapons could be giving information to potential enemies, so corbyn not saying either way as to whether he would or wouldn't use nuclear weapons would be protecting the country as the enemy would not know what he would do.

    anyway, nuclear weapons are a 1950s solution to a 2023 problem, weapons from a by gone era for warfare of a by gone era where there needed to be an end to millions being sent off to battle.

    cyber and similar is the warfare of the modern age, it's cheap and effective and that is what countries should be focusing on rather then 70 year old technology that is cumbersome, horrifically expensive and requires all of the waiting around for the processes to take place before a single missile can even be fired, by which time the country is destroyed anyway.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It has a colonial mentality - the north is just another colony to be mined. Most MPs are public school toffs parachuted into a constituency by the toffs at Westminster - and that is as true of new labour as it is of the Tories.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Fake?

    It's difficult to verify.

    As Brexit demonstrates Mogg while demanding that Brits use measurements that they do use anyway and making a big thing of trivia, did not lose much time opening up in Dublin post Brexit.

    Listening to Tories and their somewhat loose grasp of facts gives one the impression they are a bit lacking. Few come out badly from their mistakes though. Stupidity outside UK the government is generally seen as a hindrance to a career and personal wealth accumulation.

    Fortunately they have vast quantities of forelock tuggers, who like the MAGA crowd somehow think that putting their "betters" into power will allow them to benefit from the infamous Thatcher/ Reagan "trickle down".

    So regardless of their misery, there are millions of faithful forelock tugging Tory supporters patiently waiting to be trickled on from a great height.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The British need to do a bit of guillotining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    People who have read his history books say they are badly written and incoherent and they don't think he is an intellectual. But because he has the posh plummy accent, his inferiors assume he has a vast intellect.

    As I said with the monarchy, I used to think it wasn't a bad thing, but now I suspect it is contributing somewhat to the huge gap in equality and many millions of Britons living in poverty i.e. they are willingly buying into the idea of 'them and us' and having your betters in society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    And how do you think Corbin would have reacted to Putin’s invasion of Ukraine? Would he have imposed sanctions and supplied arms and training to Ukraine, or would he kissing his arse and making excuses for him like Daly and Wallace?

    and those old technology weapons you talk about? They are probably the only thing keeping Russia from using theirs at the moment. No PM should ever have any doubt about using them, to do so negates the advantage of having them.

    Corbyn would have been an absolute disaster for the UK and the safety of Europe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    ask corbyn himself that question.

    no, other nuclear nations aren't what is preventing putin from firing his weapons, in reality if he is insane enough to fire them, then he will fire them regardless, seeing as anyone willing to fire them in the first place aren't bothered about the consequences.

    it's a myth that nuclear weapons are a deterent, it's just something thrown out by those who are obsessed with WWII to an unhealthy level.

    corbyn would have been fine for the uk and the safety of europe, at worst he would have been above the tories.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    I was there during the Corbyn/May election and the impression I got was that he was the passionate factory floor steward making sure everyone would get their fair share of Marietta biscuits, but otherwise he was no threat to the english class system. His politics was shaped too much by class struggle for him to ever rise above it.

    Honestly I do not see any challenge to the gross inequities in english society because many of the poorest still think they are wealthy, despite all the evident decay.

    In Ireland our elected reps are a fair reflection of our society, but in England with the safe seat voting system, the much lower rate of representation, and the costly barriers to university the gulf between the ruling class and everyone else widens more every day.

    Maybe England will have its "let them eat cake" moment, but there's been plenty of them already like partygate.

    Maybe it takes tla few years of no change under labour for frustration to morph into action.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    How is it a myth, has there been a nuclear war that is somehow being kept from us? Surely we would have noticed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Your words are of the type that grace the Mail Daily in the UK.

    What do you base Corbyns action on?

    Politics is the very reason why weapons are not the first resort. Anyway it is no more withing Corbyns power to act unilaterally than it was Blairs when he was called upon to steal Iraqs oil.

    Suez set the path for Britains future and basically as far as nukes go, they are a bit like the leg of a starfish when it comes to fighting. A proxy for the US well away from the "organ grinder!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    We will never know how good Corbyn would have been as a PM since so many outright lies were thrown against him that most people will never know the reality. The establishment closed ranks against the only real socialist the country has seen since the days of Bevin, and that includes his own party who chose to throw away the election to keep him out of power.

    A very sad day and what's sader is most people bought wholeheartedly into the **** wall of lies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Michael Foot and Tony Benn were real socialists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    it's a myth because anyone willing to fire a nuke isn't bothered about the consequences, because as far as they are concerned, the firing of it and the damage it does is more important then the damage done back.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Churchill represented Manchester, Oldham, Dundee and a constituency in Essex, who knew he was proud Scot? Londoner Peter Mandelson was given a safe seat in Hartlepool. Thatcher from Lincolnshire hunted around for years until she found a seat she could win. Parachuting candidates exists today.

    If you were a Fianna Fail election failure like Lisa Chambers in Mayo and saw a "safe seat" in Cork when Micheal Martin retires the Corkonians would run her out as a blow-in or carpet bagger! Here you have probably their most high profile senator and a seat she should win but the voters would not stand for it

    But in the UK the voter seems not to care about the individual, only the colour of the rosette on their chest. If a politican is deemed important enough they will be give a "safe seat" and the local rep will encouraged/ordered to stand aside.

    The Brits have themselves to blame. If they consider their MPs are useless why do they accept candidates who arrive a month or two before an election and do not care about them at all. They only care about the colour of your rosette. Their cries about Westminister are their own fault



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    If there should be any doubt about how that bit of lunacy goes, One has only to look at the number of times during the Brexit referendum the "Brexit will hurt the EU more than it hurts us" position was used to fire up the IQ zero's.


    We all make mistakes. Just hope the "great" British public never get consulted as to whether to launch a nuke though :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    amyone who votes FF in Cork, would still vote FF, just not for that particular candidate. They would then give their second preference to an independent, or a green, anyone but SF or FG.

    then, of course, in Kerry it’s the surname that counts, not the calibre of the candidate, be that for TD or council elections.

    the two systems are so different it is impossible to compare the two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    you really think Russia wouldn’t have nuked the US by now (or vice versa ) if they thought they wouldn’t get muked themselves?

    you really do live in cloud cuckoo land



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭yagan


    Carlow Kilkenny was interesting in that a Fianna Failer topped the first count, but failed to win a seat as all ff transfers traded between the other two ffers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    ultimately no, because even without nukes the US would have defeated them anyway and the soviet union would only have ever been able to put together so many.

    now days, cyber is more effective and a hell of a lot cheaper.

    nuclear weapons are effectively another form of short peanus syndrome in 2023.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The fact that the US hard right have blocked funding for Ukraine is all the evidence you need that cyber is the new battlefield - heck they had a president in their pocket without firing a single bullet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    So you think that if Russia dropped nukes on New York, Washington, LA and a dozen other targets such as naval ports, air bases and army establishments, the US would have been in a position to still invade Russia?

    Yes, cyber warfare is becoming more and more effective, but nuclear is still the ultimate threat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's mad how they built the channel tunnel and exited Europe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    exactly, and you know what? you have reminded me that there doesn't even need to be a cyber attack launched to cause huge damage.

    damage can be done by spreading misinformation and the far right will do the rest.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    Agree with you but you can say the same about Ireland, very much an I'm alright Jack' attitude. Really does add to the similarities across both countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,199 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    not any more.

    cyber is the ultimate threat now, nuclear weapons are just the early diesel trains of weaponry and warfare.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    Rubbish. You've probably haven't met many MPs. Suits your argument to frame everything down to a 'colonial' mentality.

    This site is full of people who've never been in the UK, but my god, left wing academics have certainly done a good job with some of you.

    For the record, I would have had professional relationships with around 40 MPs.

    I tell my UK friends to keep reading some of this stuff. Then again, if it makes you feel happier and superior, carry on. Just don't expect to be taken seriously outside of you little bubble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I am English by Birth and lived there most of my life so are you willing to reconsider you statement ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Cyber deterrence is working now, in the same way as Mutually Assured Destruction works. The West could turn Moscow back to the stone age using Cyber, but they won't do it, because there would be tens of millions of refugees coming out of Russia into the West. WW1 trench warfare is still the game in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I'm the same I grew up there and there's so much that was right

    Now it's like a place that will eat itself

    Left v Right



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I disagree. I can't see people in a country like Ireland taking a huge risk like Brexit being fine with only other people facing the consequences.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    If it suited their pockets, the Irish would, but this is not about Brexit specifically. I was making reference to the Irish and UK mentality, very similar 'pull up the drawbridge' mentality across 'the haves' as distinct from 'the have nots' in both countries.



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