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Where have all the workers gone?

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake



    You earn forty k , i.e nothing and fifty percent gets thieves off you.

    No, it doesn't




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭893bet


    Is she recently qualified? Or perhaps the curricula changed wildly?


    I have several friends who have give the impression once you have set up decent set of lesson plans you are pretty much set. I do some part time teaching and these days there is zero class prep needed personally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    It's not about teaching a subjects.

    Now you have to be on the lookout for potential sexual abuse at home, and liable if you don't report your suspicions.

    You can't discipline children in case you harm their mental health, and you worry about giving low marks for the same reason.

    You have to be up to the minute on whatever social/sexual/gender based lingo is in vogue because God forbid you use the wrong language or "assume" something .

    You have to be aware that ANYTHING you say can be misconstrued, and parents will be marching to the school threatening legal action for grooming if you gave a student so much as a compliment.

    You have to be aware that any physical contact at all in any way can also result in threats of litigation. An Art teacher I know got a solicitors letter to the school after she threw a ball of wool at a student who was playing with their phone in class. She's since taken early retirement.

    You've got to deal with children with real or imagined "isms" and again, be hyper conscious of how you treat them, while at the same time not showing favouritism or making their life easier than other students.

    The guidance from the dept of education is basically, "you're on your own, do you best, but we won't stand by you if you f*ck up".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hence my comment about trying to perfect society (A) It doesn't work society can try and control the mean and opportunity but can't change the motive (B) The law of unintended consequences, by asking teachers to be responsible for preventing every ill in society its made teaching less and less atractive as a careee.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    €500k house

    10% deposit = €50k

    €450k divided by 4 (you can borrow 4 times your income) = €112,500

    €112,500 annual income between a couple = €56,250 each/average.

    Hardly impossible.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What percentage of workers have a salary of over 55k in Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭amacca


    I don't really know tbh

    For years I thought I was suffering from the grass is always greener on the other side or suffering from premature old man shakes fist at clouds


    But I remember my mum back then who was a nurse tell me how much harder she worked in the past (in terms of hours and pay not being great and difficult situations - psychiatric not general....but even with all that how much less stressful it was when she started.......you weren't watching your back constantly, you had support, your fellow workers might cut lumps out of you in a way that wouldn't happen now but they were all relatively dependable and an actual community of sorts....she said sometime after she left when she got married it gradually deteriorated according to her friends.


    I saw the same gradual change happening in teaching.....its moronic initiatives, kneejerk poorly thought out curricular change, a toxic divide and conquer management culture being forced in (even if management have the best of intentions the structure still guarantees this)....more reward for pr and being in the local papers and being a carrier pigeon than being a good teacher with standards etc etc


    Then there is the absolute beating around the bush when a student does something wrong, not so much for one outrageous incident...but constant wilful disruption ...there's simply no discipline if the student themselves and their parents don't have standards but on paper the standards are very high for the teacher and you are nearly afraid of your shadow most days (I gave that up and didn't give two **** near the end as there's such a thing as your own wellbeing) and you can see it wearing people down


    Then there's the constant arse covering and "planning" and initiatives that achieve no real benefit but do create extra pointless admin and work all so someone can get a bullshit promotion for a pittance in extra pay


    It's a combo of shite I suppose but for me it was the complete lack of ability to impose discipline on a smallish (but growing cohort) of continuously disruptive badly behaved, badly socialised brats.....you would have to go to the funds of the earth with dome of them (some years) just yo be allowed cover material....I could do it but it was energy sapping and energy draining to essentially have to trick mini thugs into learning something so others could too everyday...

    Basic standards and lines in the sand don't exist in some places but if you mess up you'll know about it


    Etc etc......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭gifted


    You're joking right.....

    First you have to save 50k net...

    Then 56k a year is gross...take home pay is way less

    Then take out stuff like...oh i dont know but stuff like....

    Groceries

    Car insurance

    Car fuel

    Tax

    Electicity bills

    Health insurance

    Life insurance

    House alarm

    Phone bills

    Oh and i forgot about the little one...the mortgage....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭notAMember


    The post you quoted was about getting a mortgage. This is based on gross wages and affordability… don’t really get how your point contradicts that.


    My entire family and most of my college class have left Ireland at this stage.

    our reasons were the astronomical personal tax, lack of facilities like public transport, loos, drinking water, parks. The violent crime, and just getting dog-tired of the miserable weather on top when the badly connected airports make it so hard to step off that damp rock for a few days.


    the things I enjoy should all be in Ireland already, we have plenty of funding available. Like being able to be car-free with good public transport. To go for a fairly ordinary walk, or get a coffee, and not be stepping through dog or human waste on the way there. To not have a random stabbing in the news every other day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Thinking to myself theres an awful lot of overpaid little shites on here living at home. If ya think a 500k house is cheap. There definitely needs to a correction in certain sectors of employment in this country. Totally out of kilter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭acequion


    I cannot believe I'm still listening to this crap in 2023!

    Your ignorance of what a teacher's job entails should actually embarrass you. As well as your ignorance of the fact that low to middle income earners like teachers are now living at home well into their thirties, maybe even forties. Do you consider that relatively young?

    But thinking all you need is a year or two of extra graft to set things up for life! Laughable how anyone could be so naive. But let me try to enlighten you about a teacher's job description in Ireland in 2023.

    Constantly changing courses in certain subjects like JC and LC English necessitating the teacher to constantly retrain.

    Class sizes the highest in Europe with every conceivable type of special need in there.

    CBA, continuous assessment at JC level, which has been dubbed by students "couldn't be arsed." Go figure how stimulating that is for a teacher and that to be done outside class time!

    Every young teacher now needing to break their back with several unpaid extra curricular activities, from lunchtime chess club to GAA sports to debating to extra English/Irish/ Maths. School managers shamelessly telling them they'd better be doing all this stuff to have any hope of the limited promotion opportunities.

    Croke Park hours. Gone for most public servants. But still there for teachers. Mainly a pointless after school detention where even school managers are scratching their heads trying to find a reason for detaining mothers from their kids at 6PM on a winter's evening.

    The countless extra hours of careful prep and correction that any dedicated teacher puts in to ensure his/her student performs to their best. Such hours are unquantifiable in today's classroom with kids of every conceivable need. Yet teachers are up for it!

    You are seriously embarrassing yourself carrying on and commenting as if we were back 30-40 years ago, light years before the myriad of reforms that have made teaching a much tougher job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Agree public transport is not good but if you live outside of big cities/ urban areas you can certainly go for lovely walks, go in for a coffee and do plenty of things, there are loads of sports clubs, community groups, hill walking clubs etc etc. etc. We have lovely parks and children’s playgrounds in so many towns now. It is not all doom and gloom.

    Housing is certainly a disaster I’d agree and yes more and more crime also. If we could tackle these things along with transport and better access to health care services even things like getting a gp life would become easier and better for people. We do actually have really good things here along with the bad but the pressure on services ( and you can see this everywhere now ) coupled with high living costs and inflation and housing does understandably make it unattractive for people especially the young caught up in trying to rent or buy. Can understand why people leave it comes down to affordability and quality of life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    This has to be one of the most hyperbolic posts I’ve ever read on boards and that’s saying something.

    In terms of things you ‘enjoy’, I and many others do all of those things multiple times weekly, as do hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people across the country.

    You really need to get some perspective on this country and I say this as somebody who lived abroad for over a decade.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No not joking. Each of them save €25k. And the gross salary is used as the calculation towards the mortgage amount. A €500k house is achievable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭893bet


    That’s me told.

    At least the teachers suffer in silence anyway 😀😀😀😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭acequion


    A nice enough, non aggressive response for Boards.ie. I'll take it.😉

    I'm in my last year of teaching as I'm retiring after this. And glad to be as I've been privileged to have worked at the best of times when kids and their parents respected and appreciated education. It's seriously on its way down the swaney right now.

    As for teachers suffering in silence! They have unions. Which many don't even bother with these days! A very different scenario to what it once was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭notAMember


    You have no car , yet can get to a beach on a train, have a decent tax rate and have never encountered any crime or filth in Ireland? Amazing, I’ll join you immediately.

    Where is this idyll?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Thespoofer




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Name the idyll that you believe exists where there are trains connecting to beaches throughout the country, that is crime-free, spotlessly clean, and where you pay minimal tax?

    Here’s a hint. It doesn’t exist. I suggest you move abroad and try seeking out your imagined utopia. Happy hunting!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Kensington is like Drumcondra, except it’s nice. That was the point



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭TokTik




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    You have to be a couple !

    😁

    Funny thing is the couples can't afford kids. Unless he works for Google and she works for Facebook. He/she/they.

    Why can't every everyone just work for Facebook ? That would solve the housing crisis ! 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I have a solution to the housing crisis:

    trouples

    Two could work full time to pay the mortgage. And one could look after the kids.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Another solution is that everyone works 12 hours a day in a main job and also has a "side hustle". It's so much FUN.

    And pay people to mind YOUR kids and walk YOUR dog. So much fun. Just makes so much sense. And stick the kids on social media at an early age as you are too busy going to work paying the mortgage. What could possibly go wrong ?

    Who need those extra holidays and parental benefits when you can have a side hustle and a blog.

    Also, doggy day care for those that can afford it. For those that can't - leave you dog go mental in the back garden all day.

    The Irish Times will be knocking down your door so excited to see how you juggle your busy lifestyle !!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    There are plenty of nice walks in south Dublin and many more sports/walking/sailing clubs or places to get a coffee than anywhere else in the country.

    I always find rural areas actually really difficult to go walking, because there are cars whizzing around the boreens constantly.

    You basically need a car to drive somewhere to then go for a walk down the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Deleted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    So true. Or if you are lucky you get to walk along ... the local town by pass !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Lets take stock of the current **** show that is Ireland.

    Terrible Healthcare System.

    An embarrassing housing situation for a country that considers itself first world.

    A ridiculous imbalance between cost of living and wages.

    A Government that is more concerned about making us look as nice as possible rather than looking after Irish people first and foremost.

    Fees and taxes at every turn for literally everything.

    The vast majority of people are "Cute hoors" and over charge for every service.


    If you were fresh out of college now and could set up anywhere would it honestly be Ireland? I'd say the answer would be a resounding no.

    We like to think Irelands great but when you take a step back and take stock, it has alot of glaring flaws i know every country does but Ireland is fucked on many levels.

    The golden circle have this country in a heap.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yes, indeed!

    I always find it kind of perverse and am grateful when I get back to Dublin that I can easily walk on a footpath to a large park, take the DART directly to a beach, or cycle, in cycle lanes, up to the Dublin mountains.

    If i didnt have a car down the country id be screwed for going walking anywhere!

    Kind of like dying of thirst when stuck on a raft out at sea.

    Post edited by BlueSkyDreams on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    lol, this is a good one. Your family members have emigrated because of the lack of toilets and drinking water? Are you sure you're not from Calcutta?

    I've never owned a car living in Dublin, partner doesn't have one either. We borrow one from time to times if we need to.

    You can't go for a walk? Why not? Where in Ireland have you been living? Lots of lovely walks around where I live.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Sounds a bit like Canada these days.

    I'd say not only Canada, but lot's of other Western countries these days.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That is an issue, you'd need to save €50k yourself and have a salary of €112,500. However a single person may not need to buy a 3 or 4 bed semi detached house, and could look at something more in their price range.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Am asking seriously now. Do you honestly think 500k is a good price for a 15 or 1600 square foot house? The repayments to borrow 450k would be roughly 2.5k per month for 25 years. Obviously they would be slightly less for 30 years. Then you have all other expenses associated with life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    I don't waste my time discussing my job with people any more. Its not worth it. Any teacher worth their salt works well more than school hours. But people don't see this unless they are married/living with a teacher. There is a lot more associated with the job. I'm teaching 16years and the increase in paperwork over that time is unbelievable. I was at the primary teachers conference this year and our esteemed minister for education got up and announced 15 to 20 new initiatives that will be added to our workload in the coming years. She was delighted with herself. All I saw was more box ticking and paperwork.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It depends on where you're buying I guess. I bought my house for more than that value. My repayments are nowhere near what you describe. I'm pretty happy with my lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,084 ✭✭✭enricoh


    If it involves Una Healy - I'm in! David haye- it's a non runner love!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    I just had a quick look on the BOI site before I gave the figure. 450000k over 25years is approx 2.5k a month. Interest rate is 4.6%.


    Well I don't think it's good value in my local town anyway. Nice enough town but the social problems are increasing. But like you say your happy with your lot. And fair play to you for being able to afford your house. I know if we were buying a house for that price we'd have a very restricted quality of life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Deleted



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭acequion


    Agree completely and I don't usually bother explaining it either. But when you hear this crap of short hours and long holidays you really have to step in and stop whoever is at that jaded and dated tripe from embarrassing themselves further.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Squeaksoutloud




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,743 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    That's fuckin hilarious.

    I pity the 6 people who gave that poster Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭notAMember


    Ok, benefit of the doubt for a minute, maybe they are just not identified then.

    Where are the drinking fountains on hill walks in Ireland, did I miss them somehow? How are they marked? Show me.


    And where are the public toilets in Cork city? I remember asking local councillors and they told me it was against policy to install them due to vandalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭TokTik


    They are, generally there are 4/5 weeks in a month. So I multiplied by 4.5. With the exchange rate, works out the same or less than Ireland. Sometimes maths is hard. I never said it was €350 a month. That would be ridiculous.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You want a water fountain at the top of Carrauntoohil or what? I did a lot of mountain walking in Spain over the years and even in the searing heat there's no water fountains, same in Wales and England. Couldn't tell you about Cork's toilet situation but it's not amazing in Dublin either, although I always know where I can go if I need to. What the hell does this have to do with quality of life in Ireland anyway...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,743 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Ok let's do some maths.

    I just took a 4 bed one bath place on that site and it works out at approx AUS$6,000 per month, if you multiply the weekly AUS$1,350 by 4.5.

    Converted using XE that is €3,650 per month.

    I just went on daft and looked for rental properties in Carlow, one of the places you mentioned.

    There are not many but none are above €1,750.

    So stop talkin' shyte.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭TokTik


    You took one.

    https://www.realestate.com.au/property-studio-nsw-kensington-434881195 Studio €1040 a month.

    https://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-nsw-kensington-437751636 Apartment €1971 a month

    There are multiple studios and apartments for less than you’d get in the arse of nowhere in Ireland. And that’s without factoring in the massive pay difference between Aus and Ireland.

    https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-kelso-437750260

    We go a bit further out from Sydney, a world class city let’s not forget. 4 bed house for 1642 a month. Not massively different to Carlow, a tiny provincial town.

    Well done, you got me. 🤣🤣🤣



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The grass is greener is a perennial argument Australia and Canada are a paradise and so on.

    I seriously doubt young mobile Irish people leaving are the cause of a worker shortage.

    What would be really interesting to know is what percentage of those leaving come back that would be far more telling.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I know that 85% of doctors come back to Ireland according to a recent survey, and nearly all of them go abroad for experience and exposure to different systems in their career.



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