Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Thanks.

If the state does buy the property, do the state then keep the rent payments as they are or are they reassesed?

I assume the sitting tenant has first refudlsal on the property and the state cant bump them out and bring in someone from their social housing list.

30k over, 50k over is completely irrelevant without context. Some EAs put the properties up at way below market price, often the bidders will have been looking for a long time and will be well aware how high the bidding is likely to to regardless of the asking price. They're a borderline irrelevance.

I paid 270k on a house listed for 190k on Daft originally in Limerick, it went up to 290 before I dropped out, EA came back a few months later saying it had fallen through and it was mine for 270 if I wanted it. Ill never know if it was him or the owners yanking my chain or if any of the high bids were real but its worth it for the relief of being done with the whole horrible business at last.

Giving more money to FTBs pushes prices up, who could have predicted this?!

The scheme is to avoid the danger of tenants falling into the risk of homelessness. New rentals in Limerick are like hens teeth, if your evicted you are in a very precarious position. Children involved also

The council purchases to ensure the continuation of the rental agreement with existing tenants

Great deal for the tenants but the bigger picture means that housing budget is spent on buying existing property rather than delivering new supply.

Dare I say it but yet another scheme that inflates property/rent prices leading to the rte article above

You could call it pulling up the ladder spreading to the rental market. The sense of hopelessness amongst new entrants must be unreal

Note: This is a tenant initiated program, and a bit of a get out of jail free card for a landlord caught by the rent freeze

Once again the question has to be asked why now why have the ramping up of landlords selling happened now its really obvious its to do with the high prices , why not 5 years ago. I agree with regards to some of the controls I think it is ridiculous that you cant evict a person straight away if they have stopped paying rent and I also think it is disgraceful that some tenants can wreck the apartment and then leave with out any recourse as the option to sue them is too expensive for the landlord. That would be 2 ways I would help a landlord out by changing both of these options but giving them tax payers money not a chance in hell I mean what is the difference between this and someone who invested in the stock market and losing a load of cash asking the tax payer to pay them back. The landlord made the choice to buy the 2nd property if it isn't working sell they should make a tidy profit and make your life easier using that lever and they can feel good in the knowledge that yep their tenant may lose out but someone else will gain.

The other part of this is if it was just an acute lack of rental properties in Ireland that was the issue maybe there would be some merit to the landlord tax but there is a huge deficit in all properties - rental, social, shared and private. So instead of giving the landlord free cash from the tax payer and which in turn IMO will not help the situation as the high prices are the driver for small landlords selling so they will be selling any way this money needs to be used to build and before I get any arguments about Sinn Fein or we just cant build enough houses, we have not got the resources etc. We were building 90k+ houses a year back in 2000 to 2007 so it can be done. We are spending 4 billion a year on housing supports that could be used to build, there is a projected 50Billion tax bonanza via corpo tax coming in the next 5 years so that should be more than enough to build what we need. We need more and more and the only way to do this is building fecking around with rent controls, taxes, grants or giving FTB more cash is not going to do anything for the issue. Until there is some cop on to this fact in government there is really no way forward for a lot of people owning/renting in this county.

Of course couples buying and having kids has something to do with it as it means that in the house your talking about there could be 3/4/5 people living there but you pick a situation to suit your own narrative.. I understand the issue fine. I understand that the issue is housing not just rental and until people on here advocating for landlords to get their hands on tax payers money to give them more cash than the already record high rents they don't see what the underlining condition is. We need more housing end of story and all of the grants, schemes, tax credits etc that the current government are floating are doing 2 things. No:1 its not sorting out the supply side and No. 2 its making property more expensive.

In 2005/2006 it was just under 90k so I was right we have done it before so it can be done again.. People like you have not got a clue its excuse after excuse. We are squandering 4 Billion a year on schemes, tax breaks, incentives and will have 50Billion in projected corpo taxes are you telling me that is not enough cash to draw workers here to build here REALLY. Ireland need to compete like the Arab states and Oz. Give contracts for 5 years let them live rent free and tax free and then after the 5 years let them head home or stay but if they stay they have to start paying tax and paying for their own accommodation. There needs to be a serious ramping up of building I cant believe that people on here think that giving landlords more cash is part of a valid solution that is a supply side issue and not just rentals its all supply. With regards to the rental side its horse crap and an argument built from landlords who want to remain with 2+ properties. Its simple math if they sell one property someone else can buy one property it does not reduce the amount of housing needed in the system it also does not add to the system. The only way that we can add to the system is and will we all say it together until its phucking hammered home is by building more and more and more housing. The so called attempts to help people buy or rent here has done nothing but push prices up. We have tried this now and its proven to be a failure why not use the money and try something different at the moment our govenment are stuck in a hole and think that digging downwards is a solution to get out. Its phucking frightening the lack of basic intelligence displayed by this govenment.

Any incentive for landlords is needed. It doesnt have to be a tax incentive, it could be a law that means non paying tenants are evicted in 6 months.

It all helps.

But SOME incentives are needed to keep landlords in the game, otherwise there will be no rental properties.

I agree with you about the country needing to build more homes, but in the meantime, we would want to keep the landlords in the market to bridge the gap whilst we ramp up building.

Once we have enough rental (and other) properties built, you can dial back on the landlord incentives, but for the time being they are needed.

90k new homes was in a different labour & commercial market.

Cost of building now, high interest rates, inflation, public infrastructure projects, continued commercial development and lack of available construction workforce are all headwinds that make anything like 90k units per year impossible.

SF will discover this, should they get into power. Thankfully, they probably wont.

The problem is the current govt doesnt want to be seen to help landlords in any way. I am sure SF will be the same.

Yet landlords hold the assets we need to use, so its a peverse govt logic to drive them out of the market. But SF wont do a thing differently there. They seem to hate landlords more than the current lot does.

We do have plenty of money to spare and I would love to see it invested in the councils building programme, I just dont see it happening under any govt.

Too much cost & labour management for councils and the govt essentially does not want to take responsibility for delivering & managing property.

Councils dont want the cost of hiring building teams, nor the hassle of dealing with non paying tenants.

One third of DCC tenants are in rent arrears! Its a crazy stat but its not uncommon.

There is also no workforce available to staff the new council home build programmes. Anyone in construction that wants a job, has a job.

We are at full employment.

But, there are plenty of folks not working that could work if they were incentivised to do so...

Sadly, our govt has made it too easy not to work and Ireland has a very high rate of non working households. 1.5 times the rate of the UK and more than double the rate of many european countries, despite us being in full employment and there being 10s of thousands of vacant jobs.

SF, nor the current govt, are going to pressure people to work if they choose not to.

SF will just encourage people not to work by giving them even more benefits.

Commercial construction is still strong in Dublin at least, although things will slow down in the office market next year.

There will be more carbon tax/green taxes on online shopping soon enough. Which will help keep town centres etc somewhat viable as people shop locally to a greater degree.

The Planning system certainly needs overhauling and I agree that we need to build more homes. Thats the real cause of the issues we are seeing.

I also agree that more could be done and that we could increase output above 30k homes over the next 5 years. I just dont agree that we can build significantly more than 30k within 5 years.

Not under any government.

Yes, the current system cant keep pace with demand. But I just dont see the appetitie from any govt to radically change approach and the costs involved are huge, not to mention there are no staff to fill the new roles we would need to ramp up state construction.

It was going to be impossible for interest rate increases, as small as they have been in reality, when they increased lending limits for FTBs. For example, I took out a 3% mortgage in 2019. I took out a new 4.2% mortgage this year. This indicates our market has been kept tight all things considered.

Some chap helpfully linked a study purported to support the notion that interest rates led to falls in prices. What he neglected to mention is the study stated 'insofar as those interest rates limited borrowing ability'. Not to mention the study was done by the head of financial stability of the CB leading up to the financial crash but I digress.

I don't believe interest rates have affected borrowing ability in any major capacity. The move to 4x borrowing for FTBs skewed things upward. All that matters is overall borrowing, Which has increased passed an record average of 300k recently. Don't expect any major falls and don't be fooled by scare mongerers. The real fear to me is inflation driving things ever upward.

Would be strange to argue that the war would lead to drops in prices given the influx of parent(s) and children that was going to lead to