DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

Clarecarrick · 27-09-2023 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163019#Comment_121163019

Great tip on the liquid carbs will defo add that to my list 😊

bazwaldo · 29-09-2023 3:24pm

I know it might be a little late to think about this but it might make a little difference. I have two pairs of runners which I switch between. Reebok Floatride v4 and v5. I find there's good cushion in them so for training runs they are fine. They were around €50 each (reeboks half price sale 😉). So I'm wondering should I invest in something higher end that I can test out/break in for the big day.

There are so many makes and models so not sure where I should look. I do like a good bargain but if I need to go to a proper running shop and forsake any discounts so be it. I've never had gait analysis done so maybe combining the two makes sense.

witnessmenow · 29-09-2023 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173233#Comment_121173233

Are you trying to solve a specific problem or do you just feel like you should be running the marathon in more expensive runners?

Assuming you've been using the Reebok's for the training runs and haven't had any issues in them, and assuming they still have life left in them, I'd be reluctant to change at this point just for the sake of it. Do you know how much distance you've ran in them?

Saying that, I did notice a fairly big difference when I moved from lower end asics to higher end models (maybe middle of the road level?).

With the lower end ones, as I was starting to increase the km when training for a half marathon, I could feel my feet getting tired in them, while it was much improved when I got the better pair with more cushioning.

I'm also a bargain lover, I don't mind spending money on stuff but I definitely don't like spending more than I have to! My marathon runners were €70 from the ASICS outlet. A family member recently bought my youngest daughter a pair of light up sketchers that were €72 and this is the big joke in our house that the 4 year Olds runners cost more than the ones I'm running the marathon in!

MisterJinx · 29-09-2023 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173233#Comment_121173233

Personally I wouldn't be looking at changing at this point. If your shoes are comfortable and don't give you any issues then this is the most important factor on the day rather than any possible improvement from a shoe you don't know and haven't run in. If you have quite a bit of mileage on each of the shoes then you could buy a new pair of the Floatride (which get great reviews by the way) and break those in and use the new pair for the marathon. This way you're minimising the potential for blisters or foot issues on the day. The new ones would need to have been on a couple of shorter runs and then an LSR to make sure there are no issues but you'd be fairly clear between now and then if you got them shortly.

bazwaldo · 29-09-2023 4:10pm

@witnessmenow It's hard to say. I have many aches and pains with all the mileage. Knee joints probably most concern, the rest is just tired muscles and tightness that I need to try roll out. Will a fancy pair of runners help in this regard? Well, they might. There must be a reason they are more expensive, whether it's more cushion, extra bounce, or better materials to help the feet. I'm 94kg so not exactly light on my feet which I'm sure is a factor in choosing something.

Likewise, I don't mind spending the money if it's worth it. My thoughts are that I'd get feedback from the shop and use that for future purchases, but obviously have to shell out on that first pair.

MisterJinx · 29-09-2023 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173408#Comment_121173408

Or they might not... Fancy shoes have very high stacks, carbon plates, very thin uppers etc. They are not exactly a comfortable ride. I've bought shoes with super reviews that just don't work for me, the Novablast 3 for example, great shoe but I just don't like running in it. I've my marathon pair which I love but the upper rubs the heal a bit and I'm stretching it out so it doesn't cause me issues on the day.

There is so much choice and options that if you've never really ventured outside of the more comfortable basic type of shoe then there is a lot of testing and trial and error in understanding what you like and then what your body likes to run in. A month before the marathon is probably not the best time to do the trial and error, wait till afterwards (when the black Friday sales are on - great bargains to be had) and get some well reviewed shoes then and try them out and figure what works for you.

witnessmenow · 29-09-2023 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173408#Comment_121173408

Just as a disclaimer, I'm happy to provide info form my experience but I'm an inexperienced runner so it's probably a wise move to listen to the more experienced people than me!

I'm also a heavy runner, I'm around 91kg at the moment. From my experience with my runners being heavier and slower has meant I don't get the same mileage out of a pair of runners as others would. I've retired a pair of runners with around 550km on them, when I hear others online have gotten 1000km from the same pair. They didn't fall apart or anything but I just felt my feet were starting to get sore on longer runs.

When did you get your runners?

Tired legs are to be expected at this stage of training but do you mean your getting knee joint pain or just that you are concerned about them, because I think any knee joint pain would be a bigger deal.

I do agree with @MisterJinx about being quite late to find different runners to suit though. I returned two other pairs of runners I bought before landing on the type I currently wear, which just happens to be the Novablast (well novablast 2) that he used as an example of something that didn't suit him, so it just goes to show that it is a unique thing.

TheRef · 29-09-2023 6:19pm

I'm with the others on this - unless there is a specific reason you are looking to change 30 days out, I'd stay with what you know. I switched brands after last years marathon as I wanted to try something different. It took me 2 or 3 attempts and a number of months to find a pair I really liked.

bazwaldo · 29-09-2023 6:46pm

Thanks for all the replies. There's certainly a risk changing shoe at this point so I'll heed the advice and leave well alone. I never kept a record of which shoe I wore per run so I can only estimate. I'd say my v4s have 600km on them and 150km on the v5s. I had planned on using the v5s on the day.

I have some history with knee pain. Had a meniscus tear trimmed 9 years ago and I occasionally get mild pain in the same knee. I reckon with the volume of running, the knee is a bit sensitive. I'll monitor it and try not ignore signs in case I need to rest it for a bit.

Annie get your Run · 30-09-2023 8:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173961#Comment_121173961

Reebok Floatride are my favourite shoes, I've been wearing them for the last few years after Nike feicked up the heel on their pegasus. I have a pair of more expensive Asics Novablast that I use for events. I would recommend the Floatride to anyone that wants to listen!! As you said, they are cheap but they are so comfortable and highly underrated in my opinion. My 3's are just about worn into the ground so a new pair of 5's arrived during the week :).

On the knee, there are some basic strength exercises you can do for 5 mins every morning that make a big difference - I've a different knee problem (broken a few years ago) and if I don't stick to the strength, it flares up. If you're on instagram, follow Kneepainaid, they have tons of free stuff that's really quick and easy to follow.

80s Synth Pop · 30-09-2023 2:39pm

There is no way these 32k LSR are healthy! 21K is perfect. Pint of water and bowl of porridge before is all I need. Managed 1hr 43m on Saturdays phoenix park HM and was fine for the rest of the day doing the garden and DIY.

But these 32k's you have to bring gels and water and it just drains me.

MECA · 30-09-2023 4:43pm

Agreed 🥵🤕

witnessmenow · 30-09-2023 6:36pm

I'm guessing the 42k will be worse 😅

But I do agree, on paper the difference between 21k and 32k doesn't seem that bad, but it's definitely a different animal. I had 20k today and it felt very comfortable, last week's 32k certainly couldn't be described as that!

MiniMonstera · 01-10-2023 11:37am

Grand day for a 32km LSR today. Oh wait, I already did it yesterday in pịssing 4 hour sideways sheet rain. Ah well......

I'll post again when the PTSD has subsided.....

😆

witnessmenow · 01-10-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180347#Comment_121180347

Went for my walk/cross training earlier and it was lovely! Thankfully I missed the worst of the weather yesterday on my little baby 20k

Wouldn't it be nice if we have a day like this in 4 weeks!

T-Bird · 01-10-2023 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180347#Comment_121180347

I did mine today running the Donegal East 3/4 Marathon in Ballybofey. I couldn't believe the weather when I got there this morning, it was like an Indian summer!

Unfortunately, there is a Garmin outage and I have no data for it yet. Anyway, it might be a good thing because I'll probably get told of for the way I approached the 2nd half 🤣😭.

MisterJinx · 02-10-2023 9:07am

WEEK 15 😊

So this is it, the last week before taper madness takes over 😎 Are you looking forward to the taper?

A lot of big runs appeared on Strava this weekend - it's fantastic to see and well done to you all, you are doing amazing work. But two things I'd like to say, firstly, I don't want anyone to panic if they haven't run 20 miles yet , people came into this process from different backgrounds, and it doesn't mean that the miles you are running and the plan you've been following won't get you around! Always trust the plan you are doing. And secondly please everyone make sure you are allowing adequate recovery after these runs. Recovery is so important- refuel as quickly as possible, get your rest/sleep AND keep prescribed recovery runs at recovery pace!! Those are all essential parts of recovery, the optional extras are the espom salt baths, ice baths, foam rolling etc.

This is a really big & exciting week for those of you following the HHN1 Plan! Remember when 10 miles was an LSR - now it's a midweek run! Don't overlook that one - prepare well, pace appropriately and recover well. The 20 miler will be no bother to you and completing it will give a huge psychological boost, Just make sure you keep easy easy and have confidence in yourself . We've been building to it for the past 14 weeks - you've got this!

So this is it, the last big week, the final push, 7 more days which will bring you within arms length of your marathon dream, keeping the hard work going, you've all come so far, this is the final stretch!

Best of luck with this weeks training. The end is now in sight😉 - One more big effort and it's Taper Time😁 It looks like the weather is going to hold up with week, unlike Saturday, and for anyone who did go out on Saturday I do hope you have dried off at this stage, it was a very wet one!

witnessmenow · 02-10-2023 10:45am

Week 14

Planned: 8K | 8K | 8K | Rest | 13k | 19.5k | Cross

Actual: 8K | 8K | 8K | Rest | 13k | 20k | 60 min walk (4.4k, partially kid "assisted")

All done for the week. ~57k for the week

Monday was possibly the worst run of the training block, just didn't enjoy it from the first step to the last. Didn't sleep well the night before. Couldn't even say exactly what I didn't like about it, but 0 fun.

Had the worst chaffing of my running career on Wednesday , didn't give the 8k distance the respect it deserved!

Fridays 13k was too fast pace wise (6:36/km), but I ran based on how I felt and it felt good the whole way around. Lovely day for a run.

My Strava summary for September was 38 hours of activity, its becoming a second job at this point!

Feeling good though, I feel like it's some crazy time paradox that it both feels like ages ago and yesterday that marathon training started!

The fact that its October now and this is the last big week of training is exciting and a little a bit scary!

T-Bird · 02-10-2023 12:22pm

Week 14

Kept to plan for most of week, only real incident was then my granddaughter came along on her bike on the Tuesday and crashed into me...

I did the 3/4 Marathon yesterday in the basking sun.. I Thought this one was lost due to server error but it thankfully appeared this morning. Tried to run it easy but was difficult due to everyone else's pace. Picked the pace up a bit here and there to pass people, especially one who was who was jeffin from the start. He kept on disappearing of into the distance when I passed him, I got fed up at the HM point and didn't let him passed and picked up speed until he was completely spent and gave up. I found the last 10k quite hard and felt like I was staggering a bit. Heart rate stayed stubbornly high afterwards but continued on and picked it up a good bit last 3k.

I appreciate that the run should have been "easy" and it was mostly. I did the run last year and completed it with a time of 2:56:28 with an average of 5.33 and I finished it this year in 3:17:10 with and average of 6:12, so technically it was easier when compared to last years time 🤣.

I did learn some valuable lessons from the run however. I was running with 2 other runners for the first 1/4 at around 6:20 pace one runner got tired and slowed and the other, a man at least 10 years my senior (everyone knew him and beeped their cars at him) also slowed down a fair bit only to pass me again at about the 20k stage. He must have deliberately slowed down (I'm sure someone passing him at one stage said he was too fast) because I he was going very strong when he passed me and faded into the distance. I think that I will definitely have to try and learn to do something similar for the DCM, I doubt that I will be able to go at a constant pace throughout Dublin.

Sunny Dayz · 02-10-2023 4:40pm

Didn't stick to the training plan this week - I'd planned in advance to swap this week with the following one as I would be away from home this past weekend and also push out the longer run to line up with one of the 3/4 marathons. Track training on Weds was cancelled with the storm so I went out myself on Thurs. Not been feeling on form this week - putting it down to female hormones knocking me sideways - the joys! Have just felt really lethargic. It's a bit frustrating and upsetting - I finished the half marathon last weekend absolutely delighted with it - and yet for my long run this weekend I really struggled with it and I'm now doubting everything - have I done enough, have I done too much, am I deluded in thinking I could do a marathon. I'm hoping I'm not floored again same time next month....

Distance for the week 32.6km

I've signed up to Tarmonbarry 3/4 marathon and am quite nervous about this now. In my current state I feel like it's going to be a big struggle and I'd been putting pressure on myself that this is the dress rehearsal, this is the one to set me up for the big day.

On the plus side - I wore my new runners this week. I seem to get quite aware of them around 4km for some reason and then after that I forget about them and plod along.

Need to figure out this week what time we need to be in Dublin for on the big day and work back what time to leave home at. Also must book a car park.

MisterJinx · 02-10-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184376#Comment_121184376

You're right, we will give out, it was supposed to be easy!

At least you have taken in a lesson or 2, the first big one I see is that you need to learn to run your own race and ignore what is going on around you. I'd wager that the older gent was going out to do 15k or 20k at easy pace and then the final third at marathon pace, basically an LSR with "stuff" in it. You seem to have got caught up in 2 other peoples races here and as a result you wound up not doing what you were supposed to be doing. If that happens to you on marathon day then the second half or final 10k will be a torturously long slog.

It's really important now that you take that lesson and bring it into DCM. You need to run your own race, at your own pace and be focused on what YOU are doing and not those around you. Getting caught up early in the race with the excitement and the other runners and all the buzz and you could be running way too fast and facing that slog.

To pace yourself you need to set a realistic goal and then stick with that pace through out the race. Now, I don't mean rigorously stick to the pace, when you are going up hill you take it a bit easier, 10 or 15 seconds per km slower than your goal pace. You'll gain it back over the course of the race. But your average pace per km should be within your target, just below it for the first half and then in the second half you can bring that down just below.

The marathon is an event where discipline is extremely important. You need the discipline to slow down at the start so you can speed up (or at least maintain speed) at the end. Once you master that you'll have a good day but to do so you need to concentrate on you and what you are doing!

MisterJinx · 02-10-2023 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185592#Comment_121185592

Don't worry about it, you'll be fine. I was only looking back at last years thread for something and I came across my own post this week last year and I'd the exact same type of week as you but without the hormones. Not every week is going to go perfectly, accept that and move on to this week. I don't think I can help you in any way with your cycle but what I will say is that no single week or single run makes your marathon, it's all the hard work you've put in over the last 15 weeks and the next 3 to go.

Tarmonbarry is a dress rehearsal but only in the sense that you are trying out gear, your breakfast, shoes etc. There is no pressure to perform, it is not a race, only a long run with company, it will not make or break your marathon, it's just a chance to test things out and change them if necessary or stick with them if it's working. Take the pressure off.

Everyone is feeling it at this stage, and having an off week is totally normal. Its keeping going that gets you the results :-)

T-Bird · 02-10-2023 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185604#Comment_121185604

Thanks for comments above @MisterJinx. Of course you are 100% correct in what you have said and I did think about it before doing it and I could have not mentioned it.

MisterJinx · 02-10-2023 5:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184007#Comment_121184007

I'm going to remind you to keep to your paces. I know it's really tempting to tick it up as our fitness improves and we feel great on some runs (not your Monday one obviously!) but do keep easy to easy and any pace runs to the pace you have been training at. Stick with the plan :-) as there is still a lot of miles really to put in so you need to be good and as fresh as possible for them.

It is a bit all consuming at this stage isn't it! Don't worry, in a months time you'll have loads of free time to plan the next one.........

witnessmenow · 02-10-2023 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185592#Comment_121185592

Sorry to hear it was a tough week, but don't underestimate what you did last weekend and the impact it surely had on you for this week, iirc you ran 17k at MP and 11K at HMP, thats a serious workout!

I did not feel great the week after the HM I did, everything "easy" was a lot slower that it had been, but it picked back up the following week so hopefully you have a similar trajectory!

I've broken in 3 different pairs of the same shoes this year and I've found that it takes a few runs for them to not be noticeable, so hopefully it will be the same for you

I read in your training log about the Sonia O'Sullivan podcast, assuming thats the Irish man running abroad one, I just can't get into it at all. Sonia is such an incredible athlete, even still, that I don't think she can even comprehend 4:30 marathon runners! I think at one point I even heard her describing one of her own easy runs as "ridiculously slow" at a 5:00/km pace! And then the fact that half of it is behind a pay wall, I'm not a huge consumer of podcasts so I don't know if that is a typical approach, but its something I've never seen before and it seems bonkers!

Comic Book Guy · 02-10-2023 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185592#Comment_121185592

An advanced welcome to my home village and race. Treat it purely as an LSR and not a race and you will be fine. Some sections of it are really going to be out in the sticks with one section being on a back road with grass growing up the middle of it!

A couple of sections to look out for are from about mile 10 on the old main road there is a long drag uphill for about 3/4 of a mile so just back off there. After that you are back on the new N5 and going downhill before turning in another back road to you right. This is initially downhill before you take a 90 degree turn to your right and have a really sharp climb for maybe 400 metres. Once you are over that though you are at the highest point of the course and downhill for next 2 miles.

Probably about 250 runners in it but the first 11 miles are fairly isolated so will in no way compare to DCM at the end of the month. Make sure and avail of the spread in the clubhouse afterwards, we always have a good post race nutrition range in place! Doing it myself too, Enjoy!

MisterJinx · 02-10-2023 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185682#Comment_121185682

And fair play for posting it up, you'll never know who else you have helped by sharing (and getting your telling off ;-) )

Look, it's really common for all runners to get caught up in a race, I've done it, I'm sure there are a load of people around here who could tell you loads of similar stories, no matter how experienced. Unlike other distances, the marathon is really really really unforgiving if you go off plan and it'll bite you in the a55.

Thanks for the opportunity to re-inforce the point :-)

TheRef · 02-10-2023 5:16pm

The Runners Diary podcast dropped a DCM episode this morning. The DCM part starts about 12 mins in and has an interview with Martin Kearney who has been involved with DCM for 40 years! Well worth a listen to it as they both go over the route in detail, talking about the few drags, hills, great atmosphere and cheering zones. They also mention the importance of having a conservative start. Lots in it.

Sunny Dayz · 02-10-2023 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185670#Comment_121185670

Thanks a mil. Yeah hopefully this week will go better and I'll start to feel "normal" again. We all need to have a crap run or a crap week and perhaps this is my time.

Sunny Dayz · 02-10-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185708#Comment_121185708

That's the podcast. I don't mind Sonia on it - I find that she's to the point and no faffing about with running gadgets, the myrid of fuelling etc - she keeping it quite basic. But the host Jarlath really grates on me; he fans-girls over Sonia and waffles along for the first while so he can push the content into the second half of his show to charge for it and I refuse to pay for the podcast.

DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

Comments