2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

Shank Williams · 02-10-2023 9:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183589#Comment_121183589

But only 2 of those games (Japan and Ireland games) aren’t a foregone conclusion. So far from a massive weekend at all really is it.

”if New Zealand beat Uruguay” lol ffs- don’t you mean when New Zealand b team destroy Uruguay then France are under the massive pressure of having to beat the biggest pack of wasters in the 6 nations

france “ playing for survival “ you have to be taking the piss

FrancieBrady · 02-10-2023 9:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183689#Comment_121183689

I think somebody is trying to wind you up Jacovs. Settle the horses! 😁

pickarooney · 02-10-2023 9:39am

I've never seen so many bolt upright tackles in my life as in SA v Tonga. Absolutely ridiclous to have this happen 100 times a match and then go all surprised pikachu, shock horror, think of the childre, where's me smelling salts when there's a clash of heads.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183756#Comment_121183756

I dont think Japan vs Argentina is a foregone conclusion, and depending on whether England send out a B team or not (since they have nothing to gain by winning the game), Samoa have a chance too.

I agree NZ will win their game, and France theirs, but there is always a slim chance. Read "playing for survival" as "chance of still being knocked out", even if its the slimmest of chances.

Nearly every game decides something.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183771#Comment_121183771

Ah I'd humour them the once.

gameoverdude · 02-10-2023 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183732#Comment_121183732

I meant hoping for that result.

Irelands management and players will be looking to win.

Although it would be a bit humorous.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183839#Comment_121183839

I wont be hoping for that, and wouldnt find it funny, but I know what you mean, from a non-SA perspective.

Especially with my Irish wife, and my Irish/SA 7 year old daughter choosing to wear an Irish rugby shirt to school on Bok Friday when they are supposed to be wearing Springbok clothes to school. I'd never hear the end of it.

And I would find it that much harder to support Ireland the rest of the way if they colluded to knock SA out on purpose.

pixelburp · 02-10-2023 10:08am

Bizarre segue about Scotland game; Ireland will aim to win and strangle the Scots outright. I don't doubt they'll push us, perhaps even more than the Boks did... but I don't anticipate this game being a problem, ultimately.

As to the broader worry for a 24 team competition: worth thinking on that in that expanded tournament, Scotland would be also playing for qualification into the Round of 16 as one of the best 3rd placed teams. IE, more Tier 1 nation match-ups.

You can be sure all those perennial 3rd place finishers will vote for the expanded tournament for their own continued participation in an otherwise abbreviated WC

Ben Bailey · 02-10-2023 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183671#Comment_121183671

Of course, what NZ are praying for .... FYP

gameoverdude · 02-10-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183869#Comment_121183869

Your daughter sounds cool! Piss daddy off.

Be no collusion with this Irish team. We want to trounce Scotland regardless od qf opponents.

TheRona · 02-10-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184002#Comment_121184002

Ah na, NZ wouldn't care who they meet in the quarter. It would just be funny to see SA get kicked out after all their misguided confidence and ridiculous 'innovations' and mind games.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 11:09am

Mapimpi out of the world cup with a facial fracture. Which the referee didnt deem to meet the yellow card threshold. But he had to be talked down from giving Etzebeth a yellow.

Wonder if they will bring Am over. We have plenty of cover at centre and wings, so may not be necessary.

gameoverdude · 02-10-2023 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184109#Comment_121184109

Some weird decisions in that match.

But I don't think severity of injury should be included in decisions. That's an impossible task.

eagle eye · 02-10-2023 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182034#Comment_121182034

That would be a great idea. I'm surprised they haven't thought about it.

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182892#Comment_121182892

It's not remotely agreed. Two of their penalty attempts came off the back of prior missed kicks and their try came from the missed kick off the crossbar. Just adding up their missed points is both ridiculously reductive but also just plain wrong.

eagle eye · 02-10-2023 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184224#Comment_121184224

Hang on, so you are saying that if they scored two of those missed penalties that Ireland would still have won?

pixelburp · 02-10-2023 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184232#Comment_121184232

It's an irrelevant question because if those kicks were made, it changed the shape of the game - we can't know how Ireland would have responded. We might still have won given that our gameplan would/might have changed to reflect the points scored by SA. It's all "if my granny had wheels" territory cos it doesn't say anything except apply arbitrary logic without applying context to follow suit.

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184232#Comment_121184232

Well they wouldn't have scored their try so yeah.

It's obviously a stupid argument either way. Outside of a last minute kick to win it's always a stupid argument.

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183756#Comment_121183756

Georgia beat Wales the last time they played a year ago. I suspect they are unlikely to repeat, but it's not a "foregone conclusion".

pickarooney · 02-10-2023 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184109#Comment_121184109

Was that the one where the defender was basically on his knees and Mapimpi charged headlong into him? If so, it was the first sensible decision I've seen. No shade on Mapimpi, everyone is encouraged to carry like that, but it's about time we stopped expecting players to magically dematerialise out of the way.

Etzebeth only being a penalty was the second sensible decision. Absolutely nothing in that, even if you want to forensically examine the contact area and height off the ground.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184444#Comment_121184444

Wont argue with that, I think both correct too. Just the referee didnt initially.

We seem to get a lot more replays where foul play is suspected, compared to replays when tries are scored. You just hear the TMO and referee talking in the background while the player lines up for the conversion.

legend99 · 02-10-2023 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184199#Comment_121184199

Traditionally rugby has this in a lot of competitions - Bowl, Shield, Plate on top of the main Cup. Even extends to the 7s series where all teams continue to play out for something.

If you were doing, I think all teams should play on. If you had 5 team groups as now, leave 1/2 into main cup quarters; 3/4 into the Shield quarters; put fifth place in Bowl semis.

AbusesToilets · 02-10-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184693#Comment_121184693

I'm surprised that this hasn't happened already. Could sell so much more advertising and tickets. No brainer

pixelburp · 02-10-2023 1:59pm

IIRC the Rugby Europe Championship has play offs as well, all the way down to 7th Vs 8th (Belgium v Poland, for anyone curious lol); the World Cup is a bit of an outlier structurally but then maybe it just comes down to simple cost. Play offs and "shield" competitions means more outlay to to spend on host stadia, facilities, staff, etc etc.

Honestly the more I've thought about it, the more the 24 team expansion will be the best of both worlds here. Fewer lopsided games in the pools and more meaningful clashes, while giving the traditional 3rd placed teams something proper to play for - a place in the knockout stages. I don't think it'll be the disaster some claim.

legend99 · 02-10-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184755#Comment_121184755

Assume cost must be part of it? How much would hosting all those extra nights cost versus how much would it generate?

Which raises the question in general - who pays for the costs of participating teams in general?

AbusesToilets · 02-10-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184755#Comment_121184755

Hopefully the chancers running the CC will take more of the benefits of group structures like that

FrancieBrady · 02-10-2023 2:14pm

Mapimpi gone and the Pollard/Libbock conundrum must be hugely upsetting SA's prep and confidence.

Have to be the top team in worst shape going into the last weekend of the pools.

Cookiemunster · 02-10-2023 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184853#Comment_121184853

They've played their 4 pool games. They've just sit back and see what happens this weekend.

Am has been added to the squad to replace Mapimpi.

ArmaniJeanss · 02-10-2023 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184744#Comment_121184744

Who is buying these tickets though, especially at literally a few days notice? They have the main draw years in advance supposedly because such a long lead time is needed for sales.

So under a plate/shield competition we find out next Sunday that fixtures like Tonga v Uruguay, Chile v Portugal and Scotland v Japan are happening a week later. How many fans are going to purchase tickets for these games and travel to France (or Australia in 4 years)? How many fans already in France are going to stay on? How many advance sales could have been made to locals when the teams were unknown (Group A 4th v Group B 4th is a pretty tough advance sell).

And advertising/broadcast revenue. How much are these games actually worth to advertisers/broadcasters? Very little imo - if you are paying X to be a sponsor or broadcaster of the main event, then I don't believe you'd pay any extra money. You might accept the games as a free content filler, but paying money for them? I see it as a bit like the soccer EPL decision to televise every game during Covid - they quickly found out that Picks 8/9/10 had no commercial value and broadcasters weren't willing to pay so they became freebies to Sky/BT/Amazon.

And finally the players - depending on how long pre-camp was they have been away for around 7 weeks. Is there really much enthusiasm to hang around for another 2 weeks to participate in a Shield/Plate? Or just get the hell home?

So whilst I can see the merit of the idea in a sporting sense, I don't think it stacks up.

legend99 · 02-10-2023 2:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184932#Comment_121184932

Yes. Doing it in the 7s model, when it's all done in a weekend, when everyone is there anyway, is one thing, but everything you've raised here on the practicalities of the 15s game and it going on for weeks more for those teams, is very valid.

2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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