Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

Shooter_galway · 03-10-2023 6:33pm

Shambles, dunno what voice is who but you know they fu*led up by way it went and one lad going it's fine it's fine

Pepp1989 · 03-10-2023 6:35pm

The pure panic and inability to remain calm under pressure to undo the error is staggering. England clearly is totally unsuited to the role and should never be VAR again.

~Rebel~ · 03-10-2023 6:36pm

That’s insane - aside from the stupidity and carelessness of the error itself, the ball is out of play and the VAR just repeatedly says “can’t do anything”, instead of just telling the ref and letting the man actually in charge make the call.

the insanity of leaving a massive error to stand out of some fear of breaking their little protocol. The lack of basic reasoning over priorities is mad.

The actual communication itself is all so unprofessional and unspecific as well, it’s a wonder this didn’t happen more with that sort of process!

martingriff · 03-10-2023 6:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190093#Comment_121190093

It was the video person and not the official who realised the mistake. The rules need to change that you can stop the game if a mistake was made

martingriff · 03-10-2023 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190110#Comment_121190110

I think the point is the game had already started and they can not by the laws to bring it back as a passage of play had already happened

Vicxas · 03-10-2023 6:43pm

That audio, jesus **** christ

dmigsy · 03-10-2023 6:44pm

Breathtaking incompetence all round. From the people involved and in how the system has been setup.

giveitholly · 03-10-2023 6:44pm

Who is Oli?

~Rebel~ · 03-10-2023 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190143#Comment_121190143

I know - my point is that they’ve already broken the biggest rule of officiating by not correctly keeping score. That’s as big a breach of their role as is possible to have. This could be rectified by breaching a much smaller (comparatively insignificant) law, and it seems to not even occur to them to have a bit of common sense. While the ball was dead they should have at least spoken to the ref to inform him and let him decide how to proceed.

Pepp1989 · 03-10-2023 6:58pm

Oli I'm guessing was Michael Oliver 4th official?

03-10-2023 7:00pm

The "cant do anything" person needs a p45

SlickRic · 03-10-2023 7:04pm

The video operator may as well be in charge. The only with cop-on in the room - telling them repeatedly there's a fúck up.

Pepp1989 · 03-10-2023 7:05pm

Jones appeal unsuccessful.

brevity · 03-10-2023 7:05pm

Complete Circus 🎪

SlickRic · 03-10-2023 7:06pm

"Well done boys, good process"

Absolutely cretinous.

machiavellianme · 03-10-2023 7:11pm

When did this "can't do anything" rule come in? I remember slagging my Utd supporting brothers a few years ago after a handball penalty was denied at the final whistle against Brighton, only for the game to be restarted. The shoe was on the other foot when Bruno scored. Is it a new rule?

martingriff · 03-10-2023 7:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190161#Comment_121190161

Oh I agree they should have it seems the VAR official was sticking to the laws in the strict way while the video operator was trying to say the goal was not awarded

RonanG86 · 03-10-2023 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190214#Comment_121190214

Not surprised. I know Jones' foot bounced up off the ball, but he went in with it just high enough that it bordered on being a red. The improper VAR procedure can just be quietly swept under the carpet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190237#Comment_121190237

One assumes the handball shout was during the final phase of play in the game (so nothing happened after it) and when they reviewed it, a pen was given. In our case, the game had restarted as if the goal was offside. I don't understand why you can't go back 10 seconds later when there's been that sort of error - it's not that they made a mistake, it's that they intended to give a goal but didn't communicate it correctly - by the VAR officials personally.

They could've at least informed the on-pitch ref and left the decision to him.

Enzokk · 03-10-2023 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190219#Comment_121190219

In fairness that was the referee and he had no clue what the clowns were up to. He was probably just happy they got a quick decision so was appreciative of that, I think.

Enzokk · 03-10-2023 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190150#Comment_121190150

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190186#Comment_121190186

I believe it is actually Oli Kohout,

https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/1709273058056216788

Basically the VAR and AVAR all froze and didn't think of solutions in a stressful situation so just did nothing. Happens to most of us, then again I am not getting £100K per year though.

Enzokk · 03-10-2023 7:29pm

The "Good process" I think was said by the referee and he had no clue what was happening. He was probably praising the quick decision making from the team.

SlickRic · 03-10-2023 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190311#Comment_121190311

The operator seemed to understand.

The only adult in the room.

Fitz* · 03-10-2023 7:36pm

That VAR person saying "can't do anything can't do anything" knows how much they have fecked up. But they also know that they are going to get a get out of jail free card as there is going to be some sort of 'protocol' wheeled out after the game.

Why the ignored the tech guy repeatedly saying delay the game is beyond me.

And the referee didn't utter a word. Just restarted ASAP while the tech guy is trying to show up the utter fools in VAR

Enzokk · 03-10-2023 7:38pm

Two things jump out, calling their buddies, or other referees, by their nicknames. Shows you how they probably see this as a nice time with the lads instead of a job where they are getting paid to get it right.

Secondly is the terrible communication but I think I will stand up for the VAR here, I think they have been told to speed up decisions so they are probably rushing communications to not delay the match. The problem here is now where the PGMOL have come out to say, "we want speed but not at the expense of accuracy", which is rubbish. This is the result if you try to do things too quickly. In their effort to speed up the game they have allowed a situation like this to arise where mistakes happen because you cannot just slow down a little.

happyoutscan · 03-10-2023 7:42pm

“Can’t do anything, can’t do anything”

That’s the sort of thing you hear from the black box audio of downed commercial airliner.

These guys are worse than useless.

(Stolen from Twatter)

Enzokk · 03-10-2023 7:44pm

Reading the transcript is even worse....

"PGMOL’s transcript

In the 34th minute, Salah races onto a ball from a throw-in and brings it under control, under pressure from Tottenham defender Micky van de Ven

Assistant Referee 1: “All good, both holding. Both holding.

Referee: Yeah, leave it alone.

Assistant Referee 1: Waiting. Delaying, delaying.

VAR: Possible offside, Diaz.

Diaz scores and wheels away to celebrate

Assistant Referee 2: Give it.

Assistant Referee 1: Coming back for the offside, mate.

VAR: Just checking the offside. Delay, delay.

VAR: Give the kick point, let’s go. Kick point please?

Referee: Yeah, no worries mate.

The replay operator brings back play in slow-motion to find the point at which Salah makes contact with the ball to play the pass

Replay operator: So, here we are.

Referee: Wait.

Replay Operator: Just get a tight angle.

VAR: Yeah, give me a a 2D line ready after this one for frame two after that.

Replay operator shares a close-up image of Salah as he first plays the ball with his left foot

Replay Operator: So frame two there?

VAR: That’s fine. Perfect, yeah. 2D line on the left boot.

Replay Operator: Let me just switch angles.

VAR: Romero, I think it is?

Replay Operator: I think it might be this angle better? Happy with this angle?

VAR: Yep.

Replay Operator: 2D line on the boot?

VAR: 2D line on the boot.

Replay Operator: Yep, OK. So, 2D line on the boot.

The first lines are drawn by the replay operator

VAR: And stop.

A yellow line at the point of Romero’s boot is added — confirming that Diaz is onside

VAR: Check complete, check complete. That’s fine, perfect.

Assistant Referee 1: Playing.

Referee: Cheers mate.

VAR: Thank you mate.

Referee: Well done boys, good process.

Replay Operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Yeah.

Replay Operator: Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Offside, goal, yeah.

Assistant VAR: That’s wrong that, Daz.

VAR: What?

Replay Operator: Onfield decision was offside.

Replay Operator: Are you happy with this image? The image that we gave them is onside.

Assistant VAR: He’s played him, he’s gone offside.

VAR: Oh *expletive*

Replay operator: Delay, delay.

Replay Operator: Oli (PGMOL’s Hub Ops) saying to delay. Oli’s saying to delay.

VAR: Pardon?

Replay Operator: Oli’s calling in to say delay the game. The decision is onside.

VAR: Can’t do anything.

Replay Operator: Oli’s saying to delay.

VAR: Oli?

Fourth official: Yeah?

Replay Operator: Delay the game, to delay the game? Stop the game.

VAR: They’ve restarted the game. Can’t do anything, can’t do anything.

Assistant VAR: Yeah, they’ve restarted. Yeah. No.

VAR: I can’t do anything. I can’t do anything.

VAR: Expletive

https://theathletic.com/4926500/2023/10/03/var-liverpool-audio-pgmol/

theoneeyedman · 03-10-2023 7:48pm

Amateur hour.

I've said it before abs several times in recent days that it's more tech people needed, and not referees. Hire experts, people that know the tech and the rules of the game, and less buddies I'd the referees on the pitch. Too much mate and buddy chat....

Britain has a problem culturally with experts, the worst thing you can be in Britain is a 'nerd', and poor education over the last 40 years of the Tories has bred a couple of generations that do not trust experts or knowledge, and we saw a lot of this during Covid . They'd sooner crash to earth with Dazz and Bazz from Yorkshire bungling in a job they're not qualified for than have a nerd with a laptop tell them what to do - embarrassing.

RonanG86 · 03-10-2023 7:51pm

The fact that PGMOL has existed for 22 years and we've had VAR for 5, and at no point did anyone stop and think:

"Hey, do you think we should develop some guidelines around clear communication - ie. don't say 'check complete' or 'yeah that's fine' say 'check complete, Liverpool onside, goal should stand' - so we won't get into a situation where VAR will intend to award a goal, but won't?"

is mind-boggling.

Anyone with the idle fantasy that the PGMOL will make any meaningful attempt at improving refereeing standards and isn't just an organisation that exists to hand out jobs to ex-refs should have their opinions set right after that.

awec · 03-10-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190380#Comment_121190380

For the sake of clarity, here's the point where the game restarted:

VAR: Check complete, check complete. That’s fine, perfect.

Assistant Referee 1: Playing.

Referee: Cheers mate.

VAR: Thank you mate.

Referee: Well done boys, good process.

======= GAME RESTARTS HERE ===========

Replay Operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this?

Which is to say, all the talk about delay, all of the talk about a mistake being made, all of it happened after play was underway again.

Vicxas · 03-10-2023 7:53pm

Reading that makes me so much angrier, i would love to hear what waster webb thinks of this.

Electric Nitwit · 03-10-2023 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190414#Comment_121190414

You're right, but this was before the check...

Assistant Referee 1: Coming back for the offside, mate.

VAR: Just checking the offside. Delay, delay.

My take away from hearing how amateur they are is that I can't believe this is the first time it's happened. Hopefully it causes some improvements

RonanG86 · 03-10-2023 7:57pm

"Referee: Well done boys, good process."

Lol.

mayordenis · 03-10-2023 8:05pm

Like You've obviously broken all your protocol already getting it arseways, may as well break a second more minor protocol to get the decision correct.

Fitz* · 03-10-2023 8:16pm

It really does show up the PGMOL. They (referee, linesman, VAR & AVAR) are all at fault in some way.

The only guy who didn't panic and was clear and knew what was going on was an independent tech guy.

RonanG86 · 03-10-2023 8:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190544#Comment_121190544

It's almost like getting some independent people into the old boy's club might be a good idea.

03-10-2023 8:18pm

It should be an independent panel. No doubt about it.

Fitz* · 03-10-2023 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190549#Comment_121190549

It's the independent panel that rescind cards too.

awec · 03-10-2023 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190544#Comment_121190544

They are all at fault in some way but personally I think the biggest issue is too much emphasis is put on making a decision quickly to avoid "ruining the flow of the game."

The way this should work, after the goal is scored, is:

Ref: "On-field decision is no-goal, offside, please review"

VAR: "Reviewing, on-field is no-goal, offside".

does the check

VAR: "He is onside, you can award the goal"

Ref: "Ok, so Diaz is played onside by the left back, and the goal can be awarded"

VAR: "That is correct"

This is similar to how the conversation should happen in rugby, but the problem that football has had with this is this process is much slower as it requires repeating and re-repeating what you are told to ensure everyone is on the same page.

Football just needs to get over VAR decisions taking time.

theoneeyedman · 03-10-2023 8:30pm

Just watched it and it's worse than I actually thought, they had marked the lines and knew it was on side just as the free was being taken, like literally a second later...... I imagined it was like 30 or 60 seconds afterwards when they realized it, but it was almost immediate.

It's a fvxk up of monumental proportions, and those lads (apart from the video operator) should be refereeing Upminister U10's B team from now on. Complete bullsh1t. (mate)

awec · 03-10-2023 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190655#Comment_121190655

They always knew it was onside, there was never a question of VAR ever thinking it was offside.

The issue is

VAR: Check complete, check complete. That’s fine, perfect.

What the VAR meant here is "that's fine, perfect, the goal is good"

What the ref interpreted it as is "that's fine, perfect, you made the right decision, no goal".

citytillidie · 03-10-2023 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189939#Comment_121189939

It is a quirk but you have to look at it too with how attacking Liverpool have been in that time that a no player has committed two yellow card worthy fouls in that tine

Electric Nitwit · 03-10-2023 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190652#Comment_121190652

I agree completely with how the communication should have been, but I don't think that does take that much longer. The issue is the lack of that structure for sure, but I think the reason it's missing is that this is a bit of a pally-pally old boys club

Thud · 03-10-2023 8:36pm

I assume the ref can't hear the last bit after the "thank you mate" bit so was unaware of all this.

when will they release the second part of the audio where they tell the ref?

there was a video where it looks lime he is being told what happened

citytillidie · 03-10-2023 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190143#Comment_121190143

Which is BS as they can bring it back as the check a penalty even if the other team score in that time

The White Wolf · 03-10-2023 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190704#Comment_121190704

I think he heard it all but shrewdly chose to stay silent while the others dug their hole. There's definitely a moment when you can see clear discomfort on the ref's face afterwards so I imagine he heard every word.

citytillidie · 03-10-2023 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190704#Comment_121190704

They are claiming the ref can't hear but that video where he looks like he has been told is there at that throw in where the audio ends as he is holding his ear piece about to blow when someone is saying delay and then England comes in with can't do anything and he plays on

spockety · 03-10-2023 8:55pm

"PGMOL and The FA have also agreed to review the policy to allow match officials to officiate matches outside of FIFA or UEFA appointments."

Is this a reference to the fact they were in Dubai two days earlier? If so, interesting that it is acknowledged in the statement...

Fitz* · 03-10-2023 8:57pm

He has to be able to hear it all, as he could hear the start of the conversation about the 2 players holding each other and he talks back to them.

WealthyB · 03-10-2023 8:59pm

Darren England: "Check complete check complete. That's fine, perfect. Off"

Why is the crucial word "off" missing from the subtitles version? Because it's said by Darren England, that much is clear.

Audio and subtitles of that exact moment here

https://twitter.com/Red_Scouser1892/status/1709296592807661640?t=61vXC83sXUegs6yeBqF5qQ&s=19

K-9 · 03-10-2023 9:03pm

Plonkers.

@spockety, yeah that seems a clear reference to the Saudi league. Good spot.

Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

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"PGMOL’s transcript